Shon Faye no longer on twitter

[AssignedPerfectAtBirth]

No idea why but poss deregged. Had a bit of a scuffle with the Tom Holland yesterday and now has disappeared.

I thought you meant she’d had an argument with Spider-Man

Meh, it won't last.
Holland was ace. Ran rings around Faye. Holland is clever enough to be blinded by neither queer theory bullshit nor ill-founded claims about research, and is well used to standing up for what he perceives to be true after his experiences writing about Islam.

Different Tom Holland

Same Tom Holland? Wrote a book on Islam called "in the shadow of the sword", historian, sharp, intelligent, won't be scared off by the TAs.

Yes, that Tom Holland.

Yeh well if he took on the Salafists then he won't be likely to submit to the TRAs so easily. I'm sure they will have a good old go though

I doubt they'll bother him again tbh. They're bullies and he's shown he's not scared. He laughed at Tara Hewitt's attempt to get him reported to his uni for transphobia (and that tweet got hundreds of retweets) and they don't really have anything else over him. It helps that his reputation as a scholar and tv presenter rests on talent and a solid body of work, not on public popularity, and I doubt very much the people who buy his books and watch his tv programmes give two figs what the TAs have got to say.

Good Lord. I've just had a read of the Twitter exchanges. They were saying Maria got the TRA in a chokehold and attempted murder!

That she started it.

I mean, I know that part has been said before. But this is playing out in real time, on Twitter! With videos being posted. In real time.

How can you dispute something so overwhelmingly obvious. Right there.

I do think it must be well known tactic. Just keep saying black is white, and people will start to doubt their own sanity.

Fortunately, they just make themselves look utterly raving.

Raving is right.

I should really stay off Twitter as it gives me the radge but it's like a scab I can't stop picking I'm just amazed and unable to look away from the utter pish so many TAs spout.

Just finished ready Roz Kaveney's exchange with Holland - the disingenuouness is breathtaking, apparently "The woman who was punched was choking and kicking a smaller person at the time"...

I had to block sf. Too many crazy posts and threads where people said women were obsessed with penises and they shouldn't be as most of us too ugly to rape anyway.

terryleather: 'Just finished ready Roz Kaveney's exchange with Holland - the disingenuouness is breathtaking, apparently "The woman who was punched was choking and kicking a smaller person at the time"...'

I suppose they operate on the Goebbels principle that if you're going to tell a lie, make it a big one. It's fascinating, really, that they put this shit about when it's quite clear from the video what happened. Even if there was no video, what is the likelihood that a 61-year old woman would set about two younger, able-bodied males?

One of the things that fascinates and appals me about this is the number of supposedly progressive left-wing people who fall for it. You have your core group of transactivists who are clearly malign in intent - basically a bunch of good old-fashioned woman-haters and MRAs who say things like feminists should be raped and murdered.

And then you have a wider group of lefties who think of transgenderism as being a progressive cause, and seem to be able to perform a double-think of imagining they're feminist while supporting people who want to rape and murder feminists. That is quite some cognitive dissonance.

Also: I am so glad to have Tom Holland on our side. He is fearless, intelligent and doesn't take any bullshit.

Interview with Tom Holland in the Evening Standard. He certainly doesn't strike me as the sort of person the transactivist lobby could put the frighteners on. And given his reaction to the mass grave of Yazidi women who were massacred because they were too old to be used as sex slaves (he vomited), I can't imagine he'd buy into the whole "cis-privilege, transwomen are the most oppressed people ever" nonsense. He's seen the results of genuine genocide and real world violence against women and girls very close up (and had to face up to going into a war zone to report, where the recommendation on what to do if captured by ISIL is "kill yourself").

He's @holland_tom

PricklyBall

That's good to know. A solid, intelligent, man with a strong, globally recognised reputation.

Not for turning, I'm guessing.

I agree hackmum so much of it is fascinating and appalling and every day it seems there is more and more of it.

Twitter has really opened my eyes to the phenomenon you describe re: left wing progressives aligning with TAs and I'm not ashamed to say I find it really unsettling to realise how much casual misogyny there is out there.

I know it shouldn't surprise me as I'm an almost 50 year old woman who has been a feminist since forever, but the way that the left who one would expect to be on the side of an historically oppressed group seems to take huge pleasure in attacking women under cover of the "progressive" trans agenda has brought me up short like almost nothing before.

It makes me want to weep with frustration sometimes.

We need more folk like Holland to stand up to the pish that's being spouted. He's apparently blocked Kaveney whose parting tweet contained the line "If I have condescended to the most patronising man on Twitter, my work here is done." I can't even...

It's not just the lefties openly supporting the violence that depress me it's the ones (eg Horrible Histories advisor Greg Jenner) who start off condemning the violence and then when the TAs come along and say, 'oh, actually Janice Turner is lying, the woman started it' they believe the TAs and back down - Jenner actually deleted his anti violence tweet! Because it's such a habit to disbelieve women speaking up against violence against them, they just automatically accept that the victim was lying, that the woman journalist who witnessed it and wrote the piece is lying.
Bit more self awareness from 'nice' men would be good.

Noooooo! Not Horrible Histories. Tell me it ain't so.

I can't see I'm sorry. He tried to shut me up by saying that TERFS allw ant genocide because a feminist who wrote a particular book in the 80s hated trans people and these TERFS should understand the foundations of their ideology...

I don't think he understands that a very large number of the people objecting aren't in to feminist academia; they're not objective for some theoretical reason backed up by textbooks but because they fundamentally disagree with the ideology. Their faux-intelligentsia isn't going to change that.

The idea that "Terfs" want genocide is self-evidently idiotic, though, isn't it? Who would be stupid enough to believe such an obvious lie? And it's a horrible distortion of the language when you think about the millions of people who have been killed in real genocides.

It reminds me of those much-quoted lines from Alice through the Looking-Glass:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all

It is very much like that quote. Genocide has a very clear meaning and it's not "refusing to validate or agree with your beliefs". I'm an atheist, when I say that theirs no god or I don't believe I am not committing genocide.

Shon Faye is a narcissistic misogynist who crowed on twitter that a lesbian feminist woman should "enjoy our (women's) erasure". He also says he isn't a woman because he feels like a woman, he is a woman because he says so.

The genocide thing is ridiculous and offensive. There is this ten point list of measuring genocide and I came across this conversation of transpeople who honestly believe they're at level 8. Utterly unhinged.

They're barely at stage 1 since the classification is so wooly that it's meaningless