How do you deal with religious objections to abortion ?

[Youcanttaketheskyfromme]

I recently had a conversation with someone who I didn't realise doesn't agree with abortion.

I should probably have realised as they are quite religious - married young, didn't live together before marriage, attend church and do charity work quite often.

Anyway it was a civil conversation and I pretty much said that I don't believe that a. A collection of cells is a human/a life/whatever and that b. The welfare of the woman or girl is always the priority as far as I'm concerned.

Apparently Rita animals have less "value" than humans so I don't think that would work.

I'm a Catholic, but pro-choice. I've never come up against anyone who didn't respect my views. They may disagree and I'm probably unlikely to be able to change their mind, just as they're unlikely to be able to change mine. I don't see why that's a problem, really, unless you're in a country which prohibits abortion.

As some pps have said, there is a fundamental difference of perspective on the foetus, and the division isn't neatly along religious lines. I am pro choice because I could not dream of inflicting my choices on someone else. However, for me an abortion would be almost unthinkable in any circumstance. I stress, for me. I would never judge someone who felt they needed to have one. It bothers me when it is taken very lightly though.

Many even most Christians in the west have no issue at all with homosexuality. Some have an issue with gay marriage, but that is a technical thing rather than an ethical thing. Along the lines of the definition of marriage, not unlike the definition of woman being undermined.

As for being troubled that your friend may have very different views- embrace it! Many good people hold strongly different opinions. It makes life interesting!

I have no religious belief whatsoever. I am pro-choice because it is likely to permit the least worst option for women and it is not for me to dictate to other women whether or not they can have an abortion.

I am however personally very uncomfortable at some of the tone and language which gets used on MN- for example the artificial distinction between an in utero "baby" , if it is wanted, and " a foetus" if it isn't; or even worse referring to an unwanted foetus as a parasite. Basically a pregnancy which endures beyond 12 weeks will, unless there is an intervention, in the vast majority of cases lead to the delivery of a live baby.

If there were a referendum on abortion on the UK law I would vote to keep it as it is ( the UK has one of longest cut off dates of any country and in certain circumstances no cut off ) but scrap the 2 doctor rule.

I am pro-choice, but abortion is illegal where I live precisely because of people with religious objections.

To be a little less curt about it - the way I deal with religious objections to abortion is to be constantly aware that, if I, or one of my dds were to become unwillingly pregnant, we would have to travel across the water to access an abortion, with all the associated expense, stress and complication at a time that would already be traumatic. I've quietly said to my dds that if any of their friends 'needed help', I would help them, and known that this could potentially get me into trouble with the law.

In other words, here we don't have the luxury of respecting the beliefs of others on the subject of abortion in a 'live and let live', 'it's a wide world' sort of way. They don't respect my right over my own body. They believe something which I don't believe, and I would think them entitled to do so, if my rights weren't curtailed in accordance with their beliefs.

I would agree with you @differenteverytime , that is wrong.

However, it isn't only religious people who feel strongly against abortion.
It would help pro life people be more open minded, I think, if pro choice people didn't speak disrespectfully about what pro life people consider the 'unborn child'. It is easier to see the common ground, when both sides respect the pregnancy as well as the mother, IYSWIM. It's hard to find common ground when someone treats abortion very casually as just another form of contraception.

I see your point, pickle , although I have never encountered anyone who treated abortion 'casually', even when I lived in England. I've always taken the viewpoint (and so does everyone pro-choice with whom I've had the discussion) that, once you're pregnant, there is no easy or casual way out of it. Every single possible outcome of that blue line will be a hard road, and things can never be the same again.

So I really don't know how common it is that women see it as just another form of contraception? Even the morning after pill, which isn't an abortion, is a brutal and sickening thing to take. I took that 'casually' once only, when I had no contraception in the heat of the moment, and never did it again.

I hear and see it talked about very casually. First question when people find themselves unexpectedly pregnant seems to be 'shall I keep it?' Or 'do you want to keep it?' Especially on TV. In the UK at least, and perhaps most of USA, the termination of a pregnancy has become one of two choices rather than a last resort.

I would love to see a world where there were no barriers to women keeping their babies. Where everyone had enough support, and wasn't judged, so that the decision was truly a free one.

In fact, that is what I would say in a conversation with someone with radically different opinions to me! Hopefully feminism would move us towards that world.

"It's hard to find common ground when someone treats abortion very casually as just another form of contraception."
Very very few people do- despite the pro life rhetoric.

First question when people find themselves unexpectedly pregnant seems to be 'shall I keep it?' Or 'do you want to keep it?' Especially on TV. In the UK at least, and perhaps most of USA, the termination of a pregnancy has become one of two choices rather than a last resort.

This IS the last resort. Being pregnant to an unwanted child has already happened. The time to prevent it happening has come and gone. Therefore your choices are your last resort.

"I would love to see a world where there were no barriers to women keeping their babies. Where everyone had enough support, and wasn't judged, so that the decision was truly a free one"
I would love to see a world where no woman ever had to have a baby she did not whole heartedly want to have. It is ridiculous to suggest that every woman would happily continue an unwanted pregnancy "if only she had enough support"

I'm in possibly the same place as @differenteverytime and am about 12 weeks pregnant. When I rang to get booked in this time my Dr asked if it was a good thing which was interesting, it seemed to imply she'd help if it wasn't. I found out recently too that someone I know was offered an abortion by a Dr in the 80's after possible exposure to scarlet fever, I wonder how much the rules are bent to allow it.

As to the question in the OP, I suppose I don't care, if they don't agree with it they don't have to have one. It's only if they start telling me what I should do that I'd have a problem with their beliefs.

Oh god save us from the women needing support lobby.

I had a termination. Not because I lacked support, but because I didn't want to become a mother at that point.

I had a baby, and I only breastfed for a couple of months. Not because I lacked support, but because I hated breastfeeding.

I can't stand the 'support' argument. I don't need more support, I have plenty. I need autonomy to make my own decisions.

I dont think I'd discuss abortion at work or while volunteering. I'm not sure I'd discuss it in depth with a man who objected on religious grounds. He must be aware why women need abortions and is voicing objections anyway.
If he really cared about women or children he'd tell you how he fundraises for them. That would be his focus, on helping the women who dont want an abortion but cant keep a baby.

I am pro-choice. A woman at my DS school I'm friendly with and like I've discovered recently is not only pro-life but one of the biggest campaigners and representatives in the country. She is young but from a very religious background.

How I deal with it? I have to acknowledge that there shouldn't be a person on this earth who wants there ever to be a single abortion in theory. You can argue about only cells etc. but for me abortion is an unfortunate necessity for many women. I think the pro lifers have some valid points but none that should ever take away the rights of a woman at the end of the day. I also wish all babies, even as foetuses, could be planned and wanted by both parents, and brought into families where their existence won't break lives. But that's not reality and abortion is a necessary right to deal with reality. I can't be too hard on someone who objects to abortion, I object to it but am also hugely grateful that it exists.

So basically I will never get into a discussion about this topic with this semi-friend. It will be up to her to cut me off when she inevitably realises I'm deeply and adamantly pro-choice at some point.

It is ridiculous to suggest that every woman would happily continue an unwanted pregnancy "if only she had enough support"

Indeed it is.

For those women who would, however- and there are plenty on here- I wish there was enough support.

I would never want a woman to have or continue with an unwanted pregnancy. I think it's awful that many women who want a baby can't keep 'this baby'.

Some of those who have abortions wouldn't under any circumstances keep that baby. Many would if circumstances were different. It's those circumstances I would like to see change.

I also detest the idea that abortion is a bad thing that women should be permitted to choose in exteremis and be understood/forgiven for choosing.

I have never wanted children and have always taken sensible steps to avoid pregnancy. But when I found myself pregnant at 34, in a ltr, with a good job, I was terrified that something would happen to stop me terminating the pregnancy. It didn't- but there were barriers put in my way by a religious GP. When I had the abortion, I only felt relieved. That's it. I have no guilt or regret whatsoever.

I was raised a catholic but I'm strongly pro-choice. I had an abortion when I was 19 it wasn't long after me and DP started dating I wasn't taking my pill everyday so it was no surprise I got pregnant looking back on it! I knew at that point I wasn't ready for a baby I know that my DP and family would be there for me but I just wasn't ready and really didn't want it I actually felt voilated at the thought of this thing inside of me could wreck my future plans, I didn't have an ounce of maternal instinct towards the fetus and I just wanted it out of me so I could go back to the ways things were. The abortion itself was relatively easy, the staff were lovely and I felt unbelievably relived when it was all over.

Now this year me and DP had our DS and we couldn't be happier I felt connected instantly with my baby from the beginning because I wanted him and felt ready to become a mother! It's strange to think my DS could've had a older sibling but I don't regret my decision one bit, to want to take away abortion is denying every woman control over her future.

You could have had control over your future by taking your pill every day.

To say you weren't ready for a baby at 19 but as you weren't taking your pill everyday so it was no surprise you got pregnant seems a rather casual approach to being in control of your own future.

"Some of those who have abortions wouldn't under any circumstances keep that baby. Many would if circumstances were different. It's those circumstances I would like to see change"

Do you have any evidence "at all" to back up that statement?

I just say I respect your beliefs but in my world I have autonomy over my body. And refuse to discuss it further.

@BertrandRussell, what about the thread on here where women don't know whether to end their pregnancies? It's rarely because they simply don't want to be pregnant or don't want a baby. Those women don't agonise about it, because they know what they want. It tends to be worry about the impact on their career, their finances, being tied to an abusive man.... I'm idealistic, I know, but I'd like to see a culture where having a baby didn't negatively impact women as much as it does.