Hadley Freeman article in today's Guardian

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/16/drop-gender-stereotypes-we-are-all-non-binary

Is the worm turning re the mainstream press and gender critical articles?

Also this one too....

amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/16/transition-caused-more-problems-than-it-solved

Haven't read the article you posted yet but I look forward to when I get a spare moment.

That's two articles in the guardian this morning not following their usual line. Interesting.

It would be hard for them to do a complete U turn but I think you're right.

I really hope it continues. A lot of TRA rhetoric just won't stand up to proper scrutiny, and people need to see this.

It is very positive to see this side being discussed.. (and I might have to say sorry to husband as I told him off for buying the guardian this weekend)

Lovely piece by Hadley Freeman.
The other was good too.

"We are all, to varying degrees, purple spaceship onesies – and, yes, that is the scientific term."

And that is why I love Hadders!

She is great.
The article is also very subtle though and I think this debate needs to be more robust.

I thought it was a great article. Really sensibly written. Very refreshing to read it.

It was a subtle article. But it's sowing the seed of gender nonconformity as a positive move. And that gender conformity is restrictive.

It's probably quite hard for a lot of people to see the difference between gender nonconformity, the 57 different genders, non-binary and trans. It all gets dismissed as right on rubbish, without realising the inherent danger in the trans-ideology.

Realising that the trans-ideology rigourously enforces gender stereotypes could be the next step, after reading this.

With the second article, if you click on the link at the bottom to the guy's website, the first thing on there is about being no-platformed at some events - what a surprise!

The first article is good although I agree that a lot of people just don't think too hard (or at all) on trans issues and don't see the difference between the trans ideology and the idea that gender is a social construct which is not determined by sex.

It's like the old often said on these boards 'I wish I'd had girls because I want to go shopping with them, dress them up, share makeup tips.' I did none of these with my daughters!

Or, I'd love a boy to play cricket/football with. I didn't do this with my son. He does 'tolerate it at best, mum' go to a football match occassionally with his disney dad.

Although it was subtle I think this could be a good thing. People need to start thinking critically about trans narratives, and to do that they need to have some basic background.

It's not a massive leap from that article to considering that a boy who wears pink dresses and plays with dolls may not be trans after all...

Good to see these two articles today.

This struck me, from the second article:

"I started to fantasise about being a girl from about age six because that would make me safe and take me away from my place at the bottom of the male hierarchy."

Is this why so many TRAs seem to be aiming for some sort of 'top of the female hierarchy?' Feminism must centre transwomen, having the power to no-platform dissenters, seeking to control official policy etc

Blanchefleur

You've got something there. Can't cut the mustard at the bottom of the male pole, so jump straight onto the top of the female pole.

Fishes and ponds come to mind.

Neatly demonstrated by transwomen competing in women's sport.

Bruce Jenner is proud of his Olympic gold medal. He's also proud to be named woman of the year - Glamour magazine and shamefully, Woman's Hour.

It is subtle but it marks a break from their previous opinion pieces on this subject. (Not Hadders - I'm sure she's put her head above the parapet on this before.)

That wee prick Owen Jones will throwing his dinner at the wall. Hayley had better watch herself or he'll be tweeting his followers to give her a slap for getting out of line

Hadley is definitely openly gender critical.

I love Hadders

Meant to add I like this by Freeman.

We don’t do stuff like this any more but I was on the equivalent of 17 birth control pills a day at one point so it felt like my brain wasn’t working right and it didn’t help my dysphoria. I had really big hands and a big jaw and so I still had the same problem of hating parts of my body

It sounds like he was rushed into getting HRT and the HRT didn't relieve any symptoms.

Born a boy 42 years ago, he transitioned from male to female at 19 and then detransitioned to male three years ago

That was a long time to detransition. I wonder why it took so long?

I'm glad it's being talked about. Children and adults should be able to wear what they want and do what they want without being confined by gender and having to say 'they are a girl' if they are a boy who likes dresses.

Medical intervention is serious. HRT is serious and surgery - well, it's a one step process. Not to be undertaken lightly. I've said it before - there is little psychological counselling that takes place, just discussion and evidence you've 'lived as a woman' - which is questionable.

People do detransition. Lots of reasons. It should be talked about.

But all I can say is that from my perspective, it saved my life. I wish I had done it earlier. But I can't change my past - and I can change my future. I have changed my future and the journey I've been on has been a tough one but transition and surgery has, I believe, been the best thing for me.

I don't know what would have happened if I had had counselling instead - to learn to live with my body. What's happened to me is irreversible but I have no regrets. I can't really explain what is going on in my head - or has been going on in my head but I feel so much happier now.

I do worry about the rise in people claiming to be trans who don't seem to have body issues and make it all about the clothes and behaviour.

I'm so glad to hear that medical transition has been a good thing for you, Orlantina. Having "known" you for several years under various names, it's great to read you say "I feel so much happier now." And thanks for a very thoughtful and balanced view on the wider implications.