Urinals again - sorry

[Slimthistime]

Remember that thing about Berlin and female urinals - I think the consensus was a woman would never use them?

I can't say I spend much time thinking about urinals

but a couple of things occurred to me yesterday as I was walking through Soho with a colleague (en route to a client meeting).

I thought that those dog awful pop urinals only appeared late night. But yesterday we were trying to dodge afternoon crowds and I passed very close to a man using one - I was not expecting that! Anyway, a "bleurgh" escaped from my mouth and my colleague said "well not bleurgh, they are a great idea but they need to make some that women can use".

And I said "hang on, do you mean you'd use one without a door?" (I should say, apologies if it makes me a pearl clutcher but I think it's revolting that they don't have doors and also they could have used the space for pop up loos that everyone can use but anyway)....

and she said "yes. I drink pints. I could make a lot of use out of those if they made them differently, they just need to change the design a bit and women can use them. I've peed in the street in desperation".

so there are women that would use them. Then again, I don't know if it makes me hugely old fashioned that i would like people of all sexes to just do their business behind a door.

on the sociological aspect, I find it really grim that we've reached a point of busy-ness and overcrowding in city centres that makes this necessary but what was wrong with a little set of public loos that could just be used by everyone? I did initially realise that men peeing in doorways on Friday and Saturday nights was a problem, but if these pop up urinals are just going to be in use all day, then we're effectively saying "hey guys, you can pee here in front of everyone, don't worry about finding a loo".

does anyone else find that grim? I don't want to go on my office lunchtime walk and find myself walking past banks of open urinals.

I completely agree. I find it - I can't think of any other word other than distasteful.

I realise it probably makes more sense for men. Although, personally I would rather they just walked the extra five yards to an actual lavatory.

To me, it's back to front. They are providing street urinals because otherwise people piss in the street. It's accommodating a problem, rather than making it stop.

And as for women doing the same thing, no. For a million reasons that I'm sure I don't need to state.

It's one thing bemoaning the fact that things are going downhill, it's quite another giving it the biggest shove you can.

And, I might add, that sometimes, being old-fashioned, pearl clutching, or talking about standards is the rational response.

Datun "They are providing street urinals because otherwise people piss in the street. It's accommodating a problem, rather than making it stop."

Thank you, you put that much better than I did. And my colleague really didn't understand why I was annoyed to encounter that unexpectedly. I suspect if we talked further about it, she'd just say that in a busy city we should max the space as much as possible and no one should mind that we do away with the doors.

I see the point about equality but I find the whole thing disgusting in the first place.

then again, I should say I was once en route home from a work night out - years ago, I don't do those any more - and a guy peed on the Tube train. He was trying to be considerate (!) in that he opened the door between carriages and peed out of there. That same colleague said to me it was a perfect example of why we need better toilet facilities in London.

we do - but do they have to be toilet facilities literally in middle of crowds, with no fecking doors?!

also in the long term I think that encourages the idea that you can pee wherever you like - does that make any sense? I was literally about six inches away from a man peeing in order to get a work meeting.

These are in town centres all over the country aren't they? It did occur to me that they might be in use in a day time due to peak tourist season but that doesn't make me feel any better.

on the feminist aspect, there's something about the worst kind of caveman bloke behaviour being encouraged by this - or at least I feel there is, though of course if women would use them too that's not a fair comment is it.

also - sorry, ranting - going back to the original concept - I think they started around Charing Cross - which has a whole load of loos that men just don't want to pay 20p to use!! WTF.

There need to be more toilets full stop. Someone got fined 5000 euros where I live for peeing in the street - ridiculous ! Yes, he shouldn't have done it but that's way over the top.

These seem to be very common on the continent - I first saw them in Belgium and Holland.
I must admit I was shocked at first, then put it down to my repressed Englishness.
Round here there are almost no public toilets and they are closing down all the time due to expense to run.
I suppose these are a cheap alternative for men, but there isn't a cheap alternative for women yet.

allegretto - I'm wondering where you live though I understand if you don't want to say of course.

I think it's a great shame they can't just provide more enclosed public toilets. However, after the Berlin thing and if they are common on the continent, it's not something that's going to change is it.

So it's city life that's gross, I guess!

Never heard or seen pop up urinals. Is there alsowashing facilities or is it pee and go?

Theres, I haven't looked too closely (!) but I think it's just pee and go.

I've seen bus shelters with a urinal stuck on the end in France!

There do need to be more public loos. With attendants to deter the vandalism, drug use etc that caused so many to be closed in the first place. I wouldn't mind paying a small amount (20p) to have access to a clean public loo. It seems to work in other countries (France again).

The one's I've seen abroad (again, not looked too closely) and the ones we hired for a local event are pretty much vandalism proof. Moulded plastic with a drain hole leading to a tank.
Not sure how you could make such simple ones for women.
A bit like this:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Pissoir_Antwerpen.jpg

Never heard or seen pop up urinals. Is there alsowashing facilities or is it pee and go?

The ones I've seen are pee and go. Mind you, given the stats on how many men wash their hands anyway, it's not a great difference.

It's not a pleasant thought is it.

I have also never heard of pop up urinals . It took me a while to work out what everyone was on about.

Anyway, they sound awful. Surely there should just be more public toilets rather than encouraging people to wee where ever!

Oh I've never heard of this, it sounds revolting!
I would hate to be walking past that 😝

Up to about thirty years ago there were plenty of public loos in London, every larger shopping area had them. There was an attendant, they were usually clean, you often had to pay a penny ( pre decimalisation). Cuts, vandalism, cottaging all led to them being closed down, almost none left that I know of now. The automated ones with sliding doors are dotted around, sometimes out of order and frequently dirty inside. This is a real problem - I reckon part of the reason there are so many coffee shops now is that people need to use their loos!
Pop up urinals are fine for men, not great for women, and like pps I don't want to see, hear or smell people pissing when I walk down the road.

rosy71 "Surely there should just be more public toilets rather than encouraging people to wee where ever!"

thing is, it was introduced in order to prevent drunk people going up a side street and peeing in doorways etc. Surely those drunk people have just come from somewhere they could have used the bathroom? And Charing Cross station has loads of toilets (that's the first place I saw them) so it's just people aren't ready to pay 20p for the toilet.

The guy I saw in Soho must have been within, er, pissing distance of about 20 pubs. It's just as Datun said - encouraging men to not bother finding a toilet.

I suppose the reasoning behind was someone lolling about drunkenly thinking "I have to have a piss" and the urinal is right there so at least it's flushed away. But I honestly didn't think they were in use during the day as well.

If you imagine a busy street photo of Soho during the day - office workers, all kinds of workers, tourists etc milling about in thick crowds - and then a man just pissing at a urinal in it. Gross.

I have a real bee in my bonnet about men feeling the need to pee anywhere and everywhere.

But so many parents encourage it from a young age. Little girls are taught from the moment they are potty trained that they will have to learn to control their bladder until a toilet is available. Yet I couldn't count the number of times I have seen parents of boys say 'oh, just nip over there behind that tree'. And then those same boys are adults who say 'oh, women don't understand, men can't wait in the same way, when we need to go, we need to go'. Yet the men I know who were taught from childhood that they have to wait for a toilet are perfectly able to control their bladders just like women have to.

Unfortunately in Bristol the sight of women pissing in alleyways and behind wheels bins is so common you forget to notice it. However that's late at night when the pubs and clubs are in full swing. I find it amazing that during the working day grown ups can't go for a wee either before they leave one place or when they arrive at the other.

treacle "I have a real bee in my bonnet about men feeling the need to pee anywhere and everywhere. But so many parents encourage it from a young age"

this is what my mum - she is 80 and had brothers - but I had hoped things would change - well I think they did but then went backwards.

I agree about it accommodating the behaviour. There should be more public toilets, and more police, and peeing on the street should lead to a fine. 5000 euros seems excessive, but perhaps the specific case warranted it.

Someone in another toilet thread posted a link to a site that explained how public toilets enabled women in Britain to participate in public life.
One could go as far as saying that this vandalism of public toilets is an act of misogyny.
The government should really make an effort to reintroduce, and protect, public toilets. (Which should be free of charge and funded by taxes, so no one thinks they can "save money" by not using them)

About teaching children to wait for a toilet ... I do think parents should teach girls how to pee behind some bushes when walking through a forest. Some women cannot pee without a loo even as adults, and I don't know how they even manage to get through life. It is one of the things you can learn MUCH, MUCH easier as a child, as the potential embarrassment is entirely different.

Cities are a different thing. I am quite shocked anyone would encourage little boys to pee on the streets!

We need public toilets it's ridiculous how difficult it is to pee whilst out.
They don't have doors I imagine because otherwise men start cottaging. Not the way to stop it though!

but there are lots of public toilets in london

and as i say - if it's meant to deal with drunks, they've just been somewhere they could pee! Or is it factoring in that they've come out of somewhere and staggered around screaming for 40 minutes and then realised they need it?

Why does it matter if men, or anyone, start shagging in a public loo? It's better than having open urinals that everyone can see and women can't even use. I'm sure a cubicle can be made small enough that two people could barely fit in anyway.

Vestal, I am one of those women so I am making sure that I teach my DDs how to wee outside.

I'm sure a cubicle can be made small enough that two people could barely fit in anyway.

Not a solution. For one, fat people still have to fit in, and also ... I once was at a festival with tiny, tiny, tiny toilets. Still heard rumours about people having sex in the (also unisex) toilets.

An attendant who frequently checks the toilets would be the best solution to that particular problem. And also ensure that the toilets are clean.

I think teaching girls to pee in a forest or remote place is fine.

But I am constantly surprised by how parents will encourage boys to pee in public when there are toilets available. I was in a busy seaside town on a Saturday afternoon once and saw this family (a 'typically middle class family' based on how they were dressed and how they were talking) and the mum encouraged her two boys, aged maybe 4 and 6, to pee in the middle of the busy street, against the wall right next to the door of the toilets. The toilets were there, they were busy, they were clean, they even had an attendant. But instead of the boys' dad taking them into them, they both peed in the street. I'm not often one for pearl clutching but I was disgusted.

Similarly we were out with friends at a NT property when their son was about five years old. He announced he needed a pop and although the toilets were less than five minutes walk away, his dad took him into the trees instead to poo in there. I don't think I managed to hide my shock.

and more police, and peeing on the street should lead to a fine

Way back in 1982 when I was doing my traineeship it was. In the city I worked in it was prosecuted under a local civic amenity Act. I can't remember the exact details but the offence was contravention of section ...of ....Act -