Mariella Frostrup is NOT a feminist

[ptumbi]

Picked up the Waitrose Weekend paper the other day (24th Aug) - normally quite a good read, recipes, articles, gentle bits and pieces.
MAriella Frostrup had an article in there - headlined 'i won't be bullied into 'appropriate' beachwear'. Good for her I thought.
EXCEPT apparently- '50-something ex-Vogue editor Alexandra Shulman had sparked a national debate' by 'daring to pose in a sensibly proportioned Boden bikini'. Apparently, she says, Shulman has a body that 'might not pass for a supermodel, but was a pretty impressive for a mature woman'. Sexist and agist, in one! Pretty impressive yourself there, Mariella!

She then regales us with the story of how she posed on George Clooney's boat, 7 months pregnant. She compares her 'baby-filled' belly with those of Jennifer Aniston, Lisa Snowdon, Brad Pitt (?) and the like, saying her pregnancy hormones must have 'blinded her sense of modesty' WTAF? Comparing apples and ... bricks?

She is 'proud to count herself among beach divas such as Shulman, Mirren [et all] who refuse to let the body police bully them' - no but you are doing a damn good job of judging and comparing them yourself, hey Mariella?

I really, actually thought she was an intelligent, educated woman. I thought I was going to read an article saying 'got a body? Got a piece of material that covers the societal indecent bits? Then you're good to go and don't let anyone else tell you to cover up (or uncover, in the case of the Burkha)'.

I actually got a bit annoyed!

Your reasoning seems a little petty to me.

I agree with much of your analysis OP but why do you say she's not a feminist rather than that this bit of reasoning isn't feminist?

Given a quick google and some of her other articles, I think I agree with the poster above, and instead wonder why we sometimes go looking for this absolute purity and true faith in women who dare to say they are a feminist? Isn't this just another way that non-feminists try to put down feminists? Sowe shouldn't slip into the same errors.
Also, we shouldn't be scared of disagreements or slightly different opinions between feminists. It's not like a religion, after all.......

OK then Petty reasoning? Slightly different opinions?

I am surprised that an educated woman, who reckons on being a 'beach diva' - in that no-one can tell her what to wear - is commenting on what another woman is wearing on the beach. And commenting on her body, in that it's OK as a mature woman - as if that makes any difference. If Shulman's body was shaped like Andrea Dworkin's, presumably she would be horrified at it being shown in a Bikini, Boden or not.

And commenting that she blames her hormones for not bothering about showing off her 'baby-filled' tummy, next to Brad fricking Pitt (who is unlikely ever to have a baby-filled belly to compare with hers anyway) - what's the alternative when on a yacht? A tent? So as not to show off a fat belly?

Yeah I think I'd have differing views. We are supposed to support each other - she can't even see that NO-ONE should be comparing her baby-filled 7month pregnant belly with Anyone else's, least of all herself. Hormones or not.

We are supposed to support each other, mature body, big belly, burkha, blonde, black, slim, wrinkled or not - no one should be judged on how they look, or what they wear.

I'd agree with the OP for far more reasons than the one stated in the OP.

I don't like the sound of that article but I don't think she is not a feminist. I just think actually she's a bit annoying. I hate it when she does the books programme on R4.

I don't see any reason why passing comments on how someone looks is automatically judgemental. Those particular comments seem eminently normal to me. For example, I'm told that I look young for my age. Why on earth would I be offended? It's simply an observation. It's a fact that aging causes significant differences in appearance, and that those differences can vary from person to person. It's like saying someone's car is in good nick for the mileage. You're not slagging off high mileage cars.

And yes, there's no 'best feminist' prize. Say what you like about her, but don't drag judgements about who wins at being the best feminist. She should be allowed to make simple observations without this unnecessary clucking.

I think you're being petty too. I don't see the problem.

I also am unhappy with women defining which women are feminists and who don't 'make the grade'.
There's nothing wrong with being irritated by an article and pointing out issues but calling out another women's feminism or lack of it is really lacking in 'sisterhood'.
I haven't read the article so can't comment although the extracts that you quote don't seem particularly awful to me.

She said in her article that she won't be bullied into 'appropriate beachwear' but then says that Alexandra Shulman, while not having a supermodel body, is impressive for her age. The inference I took from that is that Shuilman is ok because she has an impressive body. BUT it shouldn't matter if she looks like Jabba the Hut, she can still wear what she likes and it should NOT be commented on. At any age.

Her attitude, she says, aligns with Helen Mirren and Shulman who wear what they like; but they are good-looking women (And NOT 'mature' - 50 is middle aged, really) and she is STILL judging them! How about ordinary women? Of any age. Don't tell us it's OK if we have an 'impressive body' to be offended by it. All of us should be offended by it

I'm not a professional offence-taker, but it annoyed me - the mealy-mouthed 'impressive - for her age' and 'hormones' blinding her to NOT being embarrassed by her 'fat belly'... WTF? WHO would be embarrassed by a baby-filled belly? Even sitting next to Jennifer Aniston? That is just sick, and dangerous - there are enough problems in the world without having to worry how 'fat' you might look with a 7month pregnant tummy.

Hormones be praised for not alerting the silly cow to sucking in her tummy and dieting to look like Brad Pitt,at 7months gone.

Mariella is an utter goddess and if she says something it must be true. Is my well-reasoned opinion.

OP, you really are reading too much into this.

Pannnnn - good point, well made

Crowdo - how so? I am reading what she wrote. She was so blinded by her hormones (she wrote that) that she didn't realise she should have been embarrassed about her belly. SHe wrote that she felt she should have compared her belly with Brad Pitt's, and would have if she hadn't been blinded by hormones. Pregnant or not, comparing yourself to other's stomachs is sickening.

How else could she have meant it?

I'm not the world's biggest Mariella Frostrup fan and I wouldn't be going to her for a sustained socio-political critique of anything. But that's because she's a columnist/commentator, rather than a deep thinker.

I think SomeDyke's post was very moderate and thoughtful. It probably sums up what I think on this, too.

You have to put MF's comments in contexts: an article that prompts a bit of reflection in amidst the shopping. It's not going to send people out onto the streets and spark a revolution, it is going to reproduce elements of the culture it criticises, but it also might make some people think a bit in amongst the courgettes.

Comparing her to, Adrien Rich, say, is like comparing your friend's daughter's pony to Seabiscuit. However, they have their own place in the world of feminism.

So if you notice a difference between your pregnant tummy and Brad Pitt's tummy, you're not a feminist?

To me, that sounds like being pregnant made her feel especially confident and happy about her body and she's idly musing about how that made her feel extra cool.

Again, I think you're drawing lines in the sand that are all over the place.

No, I think she was comparing her pregnant tummy ( or would have, if she wasn't pregnant, with hormones) with Brad Pitt's and Aniston's, and the inference is that if it had been 'fat' rather than 'baby' she should have and would have been intimidated and embarrassed. It was only the hormones which made her miss that! I read it as - she only realised afterwards how 'fat' she looked; at the time she was fogged by hormones.

She aligns with all the women she mentioned (Shuilman, Mirren) who actually have impressive bodies (her words) 'for their age'! . Not with other women who may have bodies that are less than impressive Not with older women per se. Not with 'EveryWoman' - no, only the ones whose bodies are ok.

Women like Shulman who cause a frenzy by being photoed in a bikini? But she has a body 'not like a supermodel, but impressive for a mature woman'. Her words. SHE is judging. And ageist! 50-something is not 'mature' ffs!
Why does she feel the need to comment on Shulman's body (or age?)? It is not up to anyone else whether Shulman wears a bikini - but by commenting, MF is drawing up the 'rules' by which 'we' can wear a bikini - not that EveryWoman can, but only certain impressive bodies can

SHE is the one comparing and judging, whilst saying that she will never listen to the 'body police' . SHE is the one saying 'fat' is to be covered up, and is embarrassing, whilst saying it shouldn't be...

She IS the Body Police.

She IS the Body Police.

While you ARE the feminist police.

Seriously, this board seems taken over by posters wanting to judge other women for not doing their feminism in the exact right way. It is so unproductive and unhelpful. Why not focus on the actual enemies of feminism (which I don't consider include Mariella Frostrup)

I imagine she commented on it because the journalist asked her a question about it.

And agreed with last poster. Perhaps you can make a list of all of the enemies of feminism, since you have appointed yourself judge and jury on the subject, and start with the worst and work your way down to MF.

I don't think there was a journalist there to ask questions - the article is like a diary section. There are lots of people who write for this paper - John Humphrys, Jenny Eclair, people like that. It's normally a snippet of their life; John Humphrys tattoo, things people say, that sort of thing.

So this was her opinion on other women's bodies - she wasn't asked, she just opined. Shulman's is OK, if mature at 50.. Mirren's is OK and mature. Hers, at 7months pregnant, wasn't, but she didn't realise because of hormones. Brad Pitt's is fine, Aniston's is fine. Lisa Snowdon is fine. George Clooney is fine. None of them were pregnant or fat yay!

I don't like anyone commenting on anyone's body - it's not up for discussion.

Male or female. I suppose that makes me a bad feminist.

I'm not interested in whether or not you are a bad feminist. I think this is something only you concern yourself with.

Honestly, you're obviously not going to listen to sense anyway, so by all means continue to be horrified by trivial matters.

A bland lifestyle piece in a bland magazine, written from the point of view of a beautiful woman who hangs about with beautiful people in beautiful places.

I would not expect her stance on this particular subject to be particularly nuanced. I have to say I can't really work up much self righteous anger on what you have shared op. I will see if I can get a copy to read the full article. As far as feminist credentials go being misguided or vacuous in your opinion on looks, aging and appropriate beach wear is no barrier, we are all affected by the beauty standards in our society. We can try to overcome conditioning but everyone will struggle with certain aspects of living in the world as it is and being a feminist in word and deed.