Burlesque

[Macncheesewithbacon]

A long standing male friend of mine is a big fan of burlesque and puts videos on facebook with comments about how much he enjoys it. Last time I saw him I asked him if he was aware that everyone could see his posts - spanking, fan dances etc. He did know and was surprised when I said I found it an odd thing to put on facebook.

There's another video posted today and I wondered what the feminist minds of MN thought as I can't quite work out my feelings......

A while ago burlesque got a bit cool and was suddenly everywhere. It's all part of the vintage, cabaret, alternative trend, so quite a lot of people interested in that sort of thing tend to go to burlesque, often first as part of a cabaret/variety night.

Because of that, I wouldn't say that it was a particularly unusual interest, though it is niche. I'm in the performing arts, though, so really wouldn't be surprised to see it on Facebook, but Ivan see how others would.

I don't really get it, to be honest. In recent years it's had a revival as a 'feminist' act - women have said they've reclaimed it, that it's celebrating their bodies on their own terms, particularly when women with various body shapes perform. Men also do it, but they're in the minority. I resent the fact that I'm meant to find it empowering now.

I don't get it myself, but aren't burlesque audiences mostly, or at least equally made up of women?
The only time I see burlesque on my fb feed is when groups of women have gone to a show together.
Not sure why this is, as I said I don't really get it.

A former friend of mine went to a burlesque show (she thinks she's sooo 'edgy' and 'alternative and 'cool'). She then had a massive FB rant on her way home because someone was 'flopping her tits out' to feed a baby on the train, clearly demonstrating that, in her opinion, nipple coverage is best achieved by tassels rather than babies.

DH refers to burlesque as 'arty farty pretentious stripping for fat birds'. I don't think that's the most pc of opinions but actually, think he might have a point.

In my experience, yes, it does tend to be women in the audience. Cabaret and burlesque is a bit of a 'scene' so you get people who are really into it.

It doesn't appeal to me, but when I've had this conversation with people that like it, they really do feel it's feminist. They do tend to focus on the sexiness coming from what you don't see, rather than nudity, but that's not really an argument I get.

Ooh, Signora, do you think there's a business in nipple tassels baby hats?

I will offer your DH's copy next time we need some blurb for a burlesque performer, and see if it flies

In our patriarchal society steeped in rape culture, stripping is akin to a person strutting around a lion's den. It may seem brave and daring but essentially that person is surrounded by stronger beings who see her as prey. If she gets 'eaten' no one will have any sympathy, because what did she expect. Simulating that danger with cats instead of lions (ie burlesque) and claiming it's empowering is a classic displacement activity, as though acting out a lesser situation and feeling powerful (because there's much less danger) then somehow lessens the threat and power of the real situation. Women choosing burlesque and claiming it's edgy and reclaiming and such bollocks when other women have no choice but to walk in the lion's den for money is pretty sickening IMO.

Thanks for your comments. I agree with what you both have said and find it a confusing issue. He goes to the events with his wife and a few other couples. The FB posts are along the lines of

"I love fan dances"
and "spanking done tastefully"
etc

I am always tempted to comment but don't.

Thank you Sparrowhawk, I appreciate that you've taken time to comment and that has helped me understand my feelings.

Acceptable pole dancing? Middle class stripping? These things whizz round my mind.....

He also told me he didn't believe in feminism or in fact any 'ism' as 'they' weren't clearly defined. My reply "Judaism? Atheism? Racism? do you believe in those? You sound like a dick, and anyway isn't that something Ferris Bueller said - you're a 44 year old man for fucks sake"

I think our friendship has reached a natural end....

I would say that it's possible for a subversive cabaret/burlesque act to be making a feminist statement; but it would need to be actively making it.

The belle epoque style popular burlesque isn't feminist by virtue that these women are making a personal choice to do it if the result is that they seduce the audience by elaborately taking their clothes off to a live jazz band and jiggling about in nipple tassels.

Just because they are in a martini glass instead of around a pole and am conforming to the beauty ideals of a bygone era instead of today, doesn't separate the role of women being visibly sexually gratifying under the male gaze, even if the audience is all women. That one woman performing it might be empowered by the experience, but it's not empowering for women as a class.

I wouldn't want to be mates with someone that could verbalise the phrase "spanking done tastefully". What with a Coco De Mer panel instead of the back of a falling apart havaiana? Get rid.

Urgh, unfriend!

I agree, hinged - burlesque could make a feminist statement, but not just by virtue of wearing vintage underwear and the particular performer feeling empowered, or an audience member feeling empowered by watching her body type presented as sexy, when it isn't usually.

I do know a lot of people who really rate it, though. And they aren't all like your friend, OP, who sounds infuriating!

It's so passé.
A few years the Edinburgh Fringe was awash with burlesque acts. I only saw one as part of a tedious cabaret act La Clique. Circus and physical theatre is the thing now.