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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Can I have an opinion please?

36 replies

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 19:53

I would be particularly interested in a legal opinion as I am not particularly knowledgeable in that department.

I don't want to go into too much detail as to my involvement in the situation, but I will just say it was in a professional capacity. (I know neither of the people involved outside of this particular event)

During a night out a young woman was out with her friend in a club enjoying herself, yes she had been drinking. Whilst she was in the club she bumped into her ex-boyfriend. He wanted to talk to her, she did not want to talk. She ended up leaving the club alone to get away from him.

He followed her from the club shouting at her, intent on getting her attention. He aggressively pursued her along the street, she was half running and he kept grabbing her shoulder to try and turn her around. I witnessed this, she made it very clear she wanted to be left alone. After 4/5 times of being grabbed she slapped him. He then punched her in the face and she fell to the floor.

I attended to her and gave first aid for a swollen and bruised cheek.

A police officer also witnessed this and allowed the man to go as she had slapped him first and the two assaults cancelled each other out.

Is this right? It didn't sit well with me at the time, I argued with the officer but got told in no uncertain terms to shut up and do my job (medical).

OP posts:

Seeingadistance · 08/08/2017 20:01

Not a lawyer, so this is just my personal opinion.

This sounds very much like the old-fashioned police attitude to domestic violence, i.e., take no action.

Sound all very wrong to me. One violent act does not cancel out another, and in any event, circumstances and context should be taken into account.

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:06

To me it felt that he was the original physical aggressor. He grabbed her several times, maybe not as far as an assault but it was certainly an aggressive physical act. I felt that she had to do something to get him away and acted on instinct. Then he punched her so hard he knocked her to the floor. It was horrible to witness and seemed so obvious to me that he was the overbearing physical abuser.

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Slimthistime · 08/08/2017 20:06

She slapped him after he had grabbed her shoulder
So in terms of assault, he did act first? I'm not a lawyer but that jumped out at me.

Also isn't there something in law about proportion, did he need to punch her in his own self defence? How hard was the slap? Slap and punch don't seem equal.

Slimthistime · 08/08/2017 20:07

X post
You've confirmed my thoughts!

PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:08

Not a lawyer here either, but I agree it feels rather counterintuitive that the two 'attacks' cancel each other out almost

So, if a man punched somebody else and got shot for his efforts, that would be ok because of provocation?

What does she want to do?
Press charges??
Hope she is ok

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 20:11

Grabbing someone's shoulder is assault. She acted in self-defence.

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 20:11

also not a lawyer

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:18

She wanted to press charges but the officer at the scene would not allow it.

As I was treating her she further confided in me that during her relationship he would strangle her. He is an awful abuser and purposely shows up on her nights out. I fulfilled my professional duty by involving our local DA agency and encouraging her to report it to the police via 101 or at the station the following day. I also warned her of how dangerous a man who puts his hands on her throat is, and that he could kill her one day.

I was very upset that the police didn't take her seriously and potentially allowed her to return to a life threatening situation.

I have the officers badge number and am trying to decide whether I should take action or if he did indeed work within the law and followed his responsibilities that night.

(Sorry for the drip feed, I just wanted an unbiased opinion based on what the officer actually saw)

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PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:19

I wish a lawyer came on this thread.
I want there to be an offence call 'threatening behaviour' or 'intimidation' or something, because fallowing somebody down the street harassing them for a conversation they clearly do not want to have - surely that's not nothing?!

UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:20

The original action of persuing her down the street and causing her to fear for herself is an offence in itself. It doesn't need to be rough and she needn't have been touched at all. If I were advising her I would apply to the family court for a non molestation order ASAP rather than waste time with the police who obviously aren't interested. You could supply her with a supporting statement if you are concerned for her. Lawyer.

Youcanttaketheskyfromme · 08/08/2017 20:20

That's disgusting and I would complain about the officer.

PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:21

x-posted with you.

Yes, I share your concerns - I'm also medical and I suppose we see too much DV escalating

Take some advice from your defence union?? Not that you need 'defence', but they might be able to offer a legal perspective?

LittleMissMankyPants · 08/08/2017 20:23

You should report the incident to the Police. Is there a usual procedure for this sort of thing? It's not for you to decide if he did his job probably. But his superiors can't either unless they know what happened.

MeanAger · 08/08/2017 20:25

She wanted to press charges but the officer at the scene would not allow it.

She can (and should) still press charges and she can (and should) place a complaint about the police officer.

MeanAger · 08/08/2017 20:26

And no, dig for dig does not cancel out the assaults. If the officer truly believed both were as bad as each other then they both should have been arrested.

pongoismyhero · 08/08/2017 20:26

No, that's disgraceful. She was acting in self defence.

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:32

Unfortunately only the victim can press charges, I can't do it for her.

I no longer have contact with her but did provide her with my details as a witness to the offence. I have not since been contacted by the police so can only assume that she didn't go back to them (and I can't blame her after her experience, he was so dismissive of her and threatened to arrest her if he had to arrest him).

I feel that all I can do now is raise a complaint against the officer, but as I am assuming there is no record of an offence taking place the whole incident won't be on record at all. Other than medical records?

I will talk to the union, thank you for that advice.

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UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:32

Ps, look up the section 39 offence of common assault and battery if you would like more information on the criminal aspect of what has happened, you will need to look at the CPS charging standards rather than the legislation to get a sense. Police at the scene will rarely arrest low level domestics while the perps are intoxicated. The officer at the scene however does not have the sole discretion to decide whether an offence has been committed or not, she is still entitled to make a complaint, however if that officer gives a statement to the effect that they are both at fault a prosecution will be difficult and possibly not in the public interest.

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:34

It feels like a huge missed opportunity to have helped someone. I feel guilty that at the time I couldn't do more.

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PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 20:35

He chased her down the street and kept grabbing her. He knocked her down with his fist. He has previously abused her within a relationship, including grabbing her throat. He needs stopping before he kills a woman.

No, this wasn't dealt with properly.

IPCC for police complaints if you have the energy and can afford to risk any comeback.

UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:38

You can report a crime if you have witnessed it, you needn't necessarily mention that a police officer also saw. You could mention the location and time and with luck someone might check the CCTV if available without the on duty officer that was there becoming informed. But that being said, perhaps the officer also feels that a mistake was made that evening.

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:43

It was several weeks ago now, to be honest I was expecting her to report it the following day (she had a clear injury to show them) and for the police to contact me and a colleague for our witness statements. As time goes by I realise that it isn't going to happen.

I am terrified that one day I will pick up the paper and see she has been killed by him. I have no way now of accessing her records, and I never got her exes name at all. If only the officer had taken time to talk to her rather than dismissing her.
It was a busy night and he was only on scene because he was dealing with another situation on the road. I got the impression he needed to get back to what he was initially dealing with.

The woman didn't require further treatment, and wanted to go home with her friend. I had no power to keep her with me. The whole thing was a massive fuck up.

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PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:43

I think you did quite well on the night.

Whether you want to take it further (complaining about the officer) is of course up to you.

Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:49

Hopefully she contacted the DA agency I put her in touch with and they are advising her on how to keep safe from him. She already took the brave step of ending the relationship, maybe she feels that to keep safe it's best not to report him.

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Original poster

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:50

She certainly had a very good friend with her who helped her and understood her situation.

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