Men are in general bigger

[Badconversationalist]

I was pondering an incident a long long time ago. A friend tried kissing me, I backed off/tried to push him away until I was pinned against the wall before getting myself free, leaving. He was apologetic later.

I saw him yesterday (we're still friends) and I thought about the sheer physicality of the situation. He is a strong muscular big bloke. So for me "push him off", actually in reality he must have stopped and let me go.

And actually the pinning against wall scenario could be passion rather than aggression to another.

I have thought a lot recently about social conditioning in terms of women being vulnerable. But I'm wondering how much the difference in physicality determines the dynamic between men and women?

Is that stupidly simplistic? Or stupidly obvious?

I'm not a small woman but I seem to know a lot of 6 foot plus men.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

Margaret Atwood. Wise lady.

We have a blog post explaining exactly how much bigger & stronger men are. That difference can easily be abused, and often is, but for some reason people wander around thinking we're all pretty much the same really.

This should answer your direct question, at least: fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences

Oh, I've just remembered another post that probably goes some way to answering the other part of your question! It's a cracking read, as well.

Your reply reminded me, BlackAmericanoNoSugar.
fairplayforwomen.com/7-reasons-guys-dont-understand-consent

I think I understand your feelings OP. It was also a long time ago when I first realised that men were just generally stronger than women and we are mostly reliant on them being decent people and not forcing us into situations. For me it was a stupid game, I can't remember how it started, but it turned into one man holding my hands while the other wrapped duct tape around me, pinning my arms to my sides. I was laughing at first, when he first grabbed my hands I thought I would be able to stop him (they were both skinny nerds in a post doc chemistry lab fgs), but I struggled and couldn't break free. I freaked out and they stopped. I was able to remove the jumper I was wearing which now had tape all over it, and I stormed out. They were friends of friends and I never really saw them in the same way again. And I learned that even though I am generally quite strong 'for a woman' the average man would be able to overpower me, no problem. It's a scary realisation, and absolutely the basis of the patriarchy as a pp said (that, and reproductive biology). I'm just glad I learnt it in a fairly benign situation, rather than something more traumatic.

If you know how to defend yourself i.e. (Defense classes or karate etc), you don't always need to be stronger to win.

There was a great poster on my FB wall which said "Teach your daughter to become a warrior not a princess).

I agree that self defence classes will give a woman more of an advantage than a woman who hasn't taken them. But it will rely upon the opportunity to implement your skills. Which women often don't get to have.

However, I've always thought it would be useful to teach self defence to girls. On the other hand, as soon as men wise up and do it themselves you're back to a level playing field.

Or unlevel playing field. Again.

Thanks for the replies and links. I'm reading.

I agree that it is a frightening realisation and many women will always remember the first time they truly understood how much more physical power most men have. I don't think I have a single male friend who wouldn't be physically capable of pinning me against a wall against my will.

The UK is a society where, generally, physical power is less important than other factors for social status. Where educational and career achievement are valued, and technology can redress most of the imbalance, women can often forget the physical difference between men and women. However, in many other societies physical strength remains very important and of course every woman has probably found herself in a situation where strength matters.

Self defence will only take you so far.

It's great when it's obvious from the outset that you need to defend yourself. Unfortunately, it many situations (like the OP in fact) you don't realise the 'friend' is planning to overpower you until they have.

And yes there are techniques to get out of such a hold but they don't always work if you are physically weaker. They just don't.

Society expects women to be much smaller than men. It's why big women get maligned so much - because many can't be manhandled in the way you described and so aren't considered feminine. It's such a double-standard. I personally have never fancied tall bulky men and I'm a big girl- I don't want and have never wanted to be the little girl in a relationship.

Genghi - yes, I agree with those points. I have a friend who almost always dates big, muscled men in manual occupations, and there is generally quite a significant mismatch in their levels of education compared to her. I have never quite understood why because those relationships have often ended very badly (one with domestic violence). I think she is attracted to a stereotype of masculinity but can't quite deal with the reality because she also has some very feminist views.

Of course, many tall, muscled men in physical jobs make fantastic boyfriends (!) and she may have just been unlucky. However, I think that she has almost been conditioned to want to be the smaller, "feminine" partner sexually and also to some extent is attracted to the "masculine" nature of their work, and that blinds her to some of the other mismatches between them.

Personally I am more likely to have a height cut off that works against taller men. My friends generally don't understand it, but I think I just feel more comfortable with somebody who doesn't feel so obviously much stronger and more powerful than I am. Which, in a way, is also a preference shaped by my experience of society.

That's interesting Genghi.

I wonder if many men prefer and promote the notion of a 'feminine' woman, precisely because it underpins how much the power differential works in their favour.

Well I can add involvement with 6 foot plus men to my issues for therapy!

Yes it was an unsettling realisation. I think I was perhaps living with that knowledge but with the belief it was irrational. But its reality. The science article was really interesting reading.

Perhaps knowing my friend could have but didn't hurt me might be the beginning of accepting "not all men....". Maybe its simply easier to think it's all men than personal.

I suppose the every day things I was thinking of were for example when my exH and i tried talking recently and he reacted impatiently - and he almost "squared up" to me so I took a few steps back and mumbled it didn't matter. We did not have a violent relationship but it's dawning on me that his strength and size is there.

I know that's personal rather than typical everyday but it's really got me thinking about how we hold ourselves and carry ourselves.

Self defense type training might not be an answer but there is something appealing about it in terms of assertiveness.

That was one of the things that I read when reading about film kisses fairplay, it's nicely written and interesting to see things from a man's point of view.

I think the probably a lot of men have felt the same fear of someone bigger that women always have in the back of their mind. But they probably don't acknowledge it to themselves or think to apply their experience to how women feel. I mean, there's always a bigger man, someone who it would be wise not to get them angry. The difference is men would come across someone like that occasionally whereas for women most men are bigger and stronger than them. That situation also crops up in the media a lot, especially in comedy. Average man goes round to house/flat to complain about something, huge man with muscles and a scowl opens the door, average man immediately backs down and minimises complaint down from angry tirade to polite request.