DP thinks that women shouldn't be more afraid of men than men should be because more men are murdered than women.

[Fantastictwistsand]

Is he right? Statistically it seems he is.

It started off as an argument about women's only short lists and then came on to this. I've argued that women have much less of a chance against a man and he says I've turned it into an emotive argument now. I'm really frustrated but he might actually be right.

So, we can assume he means that women are sexually assaulted and murdered, but that the sum total of those offences is lower than man on man murder?

Because he must acknowledge that women are not only scared of bring murdered, but also of being sexually (or otherwise) assaulted.

As it happens, the fact that men are also victims of male violence does not make me any less fearful of it.

It is true though, statistically young men are by FAR the most likely group to be the victim of violence.

Which is why I never allow a man to "walk me home"

Just because more young men get attacked than young women didn't make less worried or protective of my daughters when growing up.

No but I guess we should be equally protective of our sons, which generally society isn't.

Are women afraid of being murdered by men? Or are they afraid of being raped by men? I've never especially been frightened of being murdered, is that just me?

Most males who are murdered are killed by friends/business associates/fellow criminals.

The vast majority of murdered women are killed by family, lovers and former lovers.

The rare stranger murders are horrific and are salaciously pored over in the press.

Men need to stop getting so drunk and be careful oof who the associate with, most women need to live like hermits and avoid fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands and sons.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide#how-do-homicide-rates-vary-across-the-population

Most of the mistaken impression that women are attacked more than men comes from the feminist conversation I'm afraid. Men are far more vulnerable to assault, maiming, death and life changing injury than women, yet the most quoted narrative is of male safety and women being unsafe everywhere they go. Rather sadly, making women feel overly vulnerable is necessary to being subsequently horrified that women feel unsafe.

It's one of my biggest problems with the current feminist narrative.

Men have a fighting chance. Women don't.

As a feminist I'd focus on the problem. Male violence.
If we can fix that then...

It isn't a bloody competition who should be more afraid. Male violence is the problem.

Men are more likely to be the perpetrators.

As I said, to avoid attack and murder, all the vast majority of men have to do is a avoid drink, be careful of the company they keep and watch their own tempers.

A lot of murdered men were caught up in fights which didn"t go their way.

They are more likely to have physically risky jobs (police, soldiers fire fighters, prison officers), are more likely to engage in risky behaviours (crime, drink, drugs) and are more likely to gather together in crowds where such people are more likely to be (football hooligans).

If they sobered up, stopped mixing with the wrong crowd and kept a weather eye on potential flashpoints, the male murder rate could be more rhan halved.

I've always said this. While all the focus is on frightening young women out of going anywhere on their own, the ones far more likely to be attacked are young men. Girls nowadays are scared of their own shadow whereas boys aren't allowed to be cautious. It's all arse about face.

I'll admit I was really shocked at the statistic.

Whilst I see your point Ginger if you changed the sex in your final paragraph from male to female you'd be hugely criticised for victim blaming.

Very true that if we can do something about male violence then both sexes will be better for it. Maybe this is something we should concentrate on more, not much is more motivating than self preservation.

The issue isn't who the victims are. It's who the perpetrators are. Men.

I think that both statistics matter.

Women are 'supposed' to be afraid of assault, but are rarely assaulted, men are 'supposed' to never be afraid and go anywhere, and are infinitely more likely to be assaulted. Can you see how the different messages are at the root of the outcomes?

It's not a competition. It's not necessary to decide which group ought to be most afraid of male violence. Male violence is the problem, regardless.

More men in total are hurt/killed by other men. When women are attacked, sexually assaulted or killed it is overwhelmingly by men. Therefore both men and women ought to be afraid of male violence.

1/4 sexual attacks and similar number I believe for domestic violence.

Does he think you have to be murdered to be scared of men?

Ask him if walking down the street and being raped by a huge man would be OK for him then? Because that's the fear women have.

Why increase the fear to 'always' when the facts mean you should almost never be afraid. What's your agenda?

Way to go to blame the victim Ginger .

Both my brothers have been mugged at different times and in different places, one at knifepoint - should I tell them to be more careful next time?

One of my brothers was also the victim of domestic violence - that his fault too?

I get sick of the "all men are to blame" bullshit. As the sister of two wonderful men and the mum of two beautiful boys, it's bullshit.

Women are not rarely assaulted scary

Why increase the fear to 'always' when the facts mean you should almost never be afraid. What's your agenda?

But you don't know when or where that possibility is going to become reality. If i am walking home alone at night I'll always feel afraid because there's always that vulnerability.

I agree that the focus should be on the perpetrator, whoever the victim.