Am I missing something? How To Raise a Feminist Son?

[BaggyCheeks]

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html?mc=adintl&mcid=keywee&mccr=EU&ad-keywords=IntlAudDev&kwp_0=452740&kwp_4=1656246&kwp_1=712261

This article has been doing the rounds on my Facebook feed the past week or so, and I dunno it just strikes me as "women stop what you're doing and focus on boys". A lot of the examples would be better focussed as gender stereotype criticism rather than calling it feminist.

I don't see why it's "women stop what you're doing and focus on boys". It's not saying you need to go out and wildly procreate in order to have and raise feminist sons; it's not saying you need to devote your life to finding small boys and inspiring them. It's aimed at people who already have one or more sons and who are already raising them as part of their existing balance of stuff they are doing. The only way in which it could be "women stop what you're doing and focus on boys" is if you assume that mothers of boys currently stick them in a cupboard under the stairs and chuck them a chicken leg from time to time, so putting time into talking to them and reading with them will be a huge additional burden.

It's all pretty obvious stuff, admittedly. But it's not a bad checklist for someone who has very small children.

I didn't see anything on the list that wasn't basic good parenting. It doesn't take into account the huge impact that peer groups have on kids. If you have any doubt about it, consider that our kids have the accent of their peer group, not their parents. That is the group they need to fit in with.

I don't see the problem, its all fairly obvious but relevant and useful.

I've got sons as well as daughters, what do you think I'm doing that I need to "stop what I'm doing and focus on boys"? And why would you have a problem with me putting some thought into raising my boys as well as my girls?

That's kind of my (obviously more poorly made than I thought ) point. There's nothing on that list that shouldn't already be happening.

I also have a son as well as a daughter and I've always been very careful to make sure he's brought up to be accepting of differences, especially as he started school.

I dunno I guess I've been feeling very tired out by all the gender stuff that seems robbed dominating things and my initial reading tonight made me think that it was another way of focusing feminism on men.

There's nothing on that list that shouldn't already be happening

If it was already happening there wouldn't be a list at all.

Yes, but does calling it feminism not make it a mothering issue rather than a parenting one, as, while parenting articles will attract a predominantly female audience, mentioning feminism would surely increase that even more?

Sorry if that comes across in any way arsey, it's not intended that way. I should probably put the phone down for the night.

I don't think so, since the whole point is raising boys to be feminist men, and so are not excluding men from doing so.

the list is basic parenting. You can do all the things on the list, but its no guarantee they will turn out feminists. Kids are not blank slates.

It doesn't take into account the huge impact that peer groups have on kids. If you have any doubt about it, consider that our kids have the accent of their peer group, not their parents.

This.

That's why wmen who way "Oh, MY sons will all be feminists" and women who tell other women to raise feminists and all will be well, annoy me.

If it was so easy to teach sons to see women as human, then every woman since the dawn of time would have done it, right?

We won't crush patriarchy by raising feminist sons. Sure, good parenting is important, but it obviously isn't all there is to it.

(And I'd wager the kind of role model the father or in absence of a father, the nearest adult male relative is, has a very important impact. Nothing to do with mothering except insofer as mothers need to get away from abusive husbands asap)

One of the biggest kickings I've ever had on Mumsnet-and there have been a few- was when I started a thread about the way men parent their sons, and that my DP has always been determined that our son find ways to channel his energy and feeings in constructive ways, and that he should resist the underlying aggression that is normal for quite a lot of young men.

If it was so easy to teach sons to see women as human, then every woman since the dawn of time would have done it, right

No.
And saying you intend to try and do something does not mean you think it is easy. I think its incredibly dificult to raise feminist sons, doesn't mean I'm not trying my best, which is all I can do.

No, we won't crush patriarchy by raising feminist sons, but it can only help matters.

How bout you keep your ideology to yourself until he's old enough to make up his own mind about things?

Yeah - let him decide whether women are human or not when he's old enough to work out whether they actually are. FFS.

If he can't make up his mind on that without your help, he's probably beyond anyone's help.

Though it's quite apparent that your opinion of men is below gutter-level and straight to "boys are born with horns, hooves and a tail" level of hysterical paranoia. Nice.

If you have a son, may God have mercy on his soul.

I have two

And they are having trouble determining that women are human? Must not be very popular with their biology teacher. Or pretty much anyone with a functioning brain.

I wouldn't keep my 'ideology' on racism or disablism to myself until he's old enough to decide for himself so why would I for sexism?
We'd like a child who is considerate, not violent, thoughtful and sees women as his equals. That starts with us, not something he can come round to at an unspecified time. I wouldn't let him go round snatching toys off other 2 yr olds, being cruel to animals etc so why the hell would I leave it to outside influences whether or not he grows up a feminist ally?

Why would he grow up to a sexist? Why is that something that you just assume would happen without your intervention?

That's kind of my (obviously more poorly made than I thought) point. There's nothing on that list that shouldn't already be happening.

But it doesnt. I often hear 'big boys dinr cry anymore' etc. It should but not everyone does it.

Dh is a complete equal parent. We share the housework etc. But a few weeks ago ge got frustrated that ds had a cry at school pick up time as one of the kids kicked a ball and it hurt him. All of sudden my dh who is always concerning himself with womens issues (we have an older dd) was telling me that ds needs to grow up and will have no friends if he keeps crying in front of them. I was really angry with him and asked if he felt the same about dd. He didnt and the admitted he was wrong. Ds got hurt and cried. He shouldnt be shamed for that. He is 6.

As much as dh is for gender equality for dd he hasnt really thought about how much a patriarchy impacts our son too and the expectations placed upon him aswell.

I dont read this as 'ignore your ds and concentrate on your ds'. Also lets be honest we should be doing the above and the internet is cramed full of lists that seem obvious to alot of us for most subjects.

If you're a good mom/dad, the kid will probably be fine.

I say probably, because other kids are going to have at least as much of an influence as parents for the first 22 years or so, and they can be pretty terrible.

You shouldn't have to sit the kid down and say, "Look here, Johnny; women are every bit as good as men, okay? Every bit." He's going to think to himself, "Um, why is she telling me this?"

Boys are gonna look to challenge most things that you say and do. If you keep beating him over the head with equal-rights stuff, he'll get to thinking maybe you're trying to compensate for something, and go in the opposite direction. If you just tell him to treat people fairly, he's less likely to become yet another drone defining himself in accordance with his biology.

You answered your own question there, Ask. Because peer and societal influence.

I dont think anyone sits their son down and lectures them from birth on why women are equal. Lecturing doesnt work.

Parenting is often about being subtle and showing kids in actions as well as words. From being small. For example you can tell kids you love them all the time. They wont feel it unless you also show it. And starting to show love it at age 10 wont negate that they havent felt love from birth.

By that age certain things are already ingrained.

The main aim for me behind raising a feminist son is so that he doesn't grow up like our new little troll friend here. I really would feel I'd failed hard at parenting if that happened.

The main aim for me behind raising a feminist son is so that he doesn't grow up like our new little troll friend here.

Yes, it would be horrible for him to grow up challenging the world and having fun whilst doing it. Must keep his mind numb and his feet in time with the beat of the drum.