Porn website restrictions from 2018

[BayLeaves]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40628909

Thoughts? Personally I'm happy about it, I just hope it works. Maybe we'll look back on the easy access to online porn in the 2000s and think it was incredible how children were easily able to get this stuff, when they would never be able to purchase a porn magazine from a real life shop, or to buy alcohol or cigarettes!

I predict that nothing will be done until the effect on boys becomes obvious and widely accepted (e.g. erectile dysfunction). The effect on girls is widely disregarded

This is another initiative that will do sod all. And may even make things worse (false reassurance)

The only things that are likely to work are promoting the use of device based filters and parents really grasping the need to supervise their DC.

And the way to choke off demand is education.

None of those things make for a good announcement though.

This is literally just pushing things back a decade. It used to be that all porn sites needed a credit card, even the 'free' ones. If you didn't have a card, for instance because you weren't 18 (or just didn't like debt) you were out of luck.

Except you weren't. Because there were the pirate sites who shared passwords for pay sites, early tubing sites that hid under other names and yes, the glory that is peer-to-peer (kazaa, limewire and now torrenting). Every time they squish one torrent site another appears immediately. Pirate bay's new sigil? A hydra!

As for VPN - I've got a free app for that on my phone, as well as a TOR app. If I wanted to be grossly unprofessional I could watch porn on my work network and IT would be none the wiser... apart from the fact they taught me how to do it.

And what about Reddit, or Tumblr, where people just share porn on their personal blogs?

This is classic government posturing, trying to ban steak for adults because a baby might choke on it. I'd say I'll stand with Mark Twain in this, but I don't really need to - so many hackers and coders are prepared to sit down for him and they're far more effective.

Parents are not going to escape the necessity of teaching children about this stuff themselves, no matter how ideologically pure their justification for laziness.

It reminds me of the filters argument when Cameron was PM. People who knew very little thought it was a good thing. Plainly if we now 'need' these changes it didnt work and neither will this.
The changes in the Conservative manifesto were utter pie in the sky and smack of technological illiteracy. The Civil Service must be cringing. It's posturing for the media and is no different to Trump's wall.

I'm so disheartened by these comments. I'm not technically savvy at all and don't understand half of it, so I'm very grateful for people posting who do.

I was hoping that the government initiative would at least show that they were acknowledging it was a problem and perhaps the beginning of a cultural shift.

But if it's just paying lip service to it in order to shut people up, then it's a cynical waste of time.

Can anyone shed any light on the reason why they are not going further? (Apart from the obvious fact that of them are men).

What are the gains in this? Do porn sites have to get a license, does the government benefit?

They're not going further because there's nothing they can do technically. They can do showboating around the easy stuff (ISP filters) but that's it. There is nothing the UK government can do that impacts a website hosted in Uzbekistan and a vaguely competent user at a PC in Romford unless we set up a system of firewalls like China.

I think you're right datun

The thought process that has gone on here is:

"this is a problem. We must do something. This is something, therefore we must do this"

The changes in the Conservative manifesto were utter pie in the sky and smack of technological illiteracy. The Civil Service must be cringing. It's posturing for the media and is no different to Trump's wall

I think that sums it up pretty well

What freaks me out about this is that everything I can think of to mitigate risk I can myself think of a few ways to get around it. The only way I can frame it in my mind is to approach it like an attritional war. Take every step to narrow down the options, then as new ones are exposed work out how to block those.

I'm less concerned with porn users getting their credit card stuff scammed than children inadvertantly or curiously finding their way onto a porn site. In fact in real life we have to cast a weather eye on stds and implicit risks attached to sex, grown adults should be able to assess online risks associated with accessing sexual content too.

I'd agree the government proposal by itself won't solve the problem but I think brainstorming and tossing every available strategy onto the pile is a start.

My only reservation is criminalising parents as hand on heart as tech savvy as I am id be sunk if my kid or a friend of his waltzes out and buys a dongle that connects to mobile network services with a pay as you go sim and accesses illicit content that way. I'm close enough to neighbours houses where their wifi is at or close to full strength so I wouldn't necessarily be able to sniff out a suspicious connection point.

My prediction is the real threat will come from personal devices rather than home internet as I am reasonably confident I can lock down/monitor a home connection, however again what's to stop buying a cheap pay as you go sim and swapping out in a phone/tablet as desired?

I was a cunning little bugger when I was a teen, but I was truly fortunate to grow up just before the internet exploded. Teenage me could probably run rings around parent me! As an adult I have to keep more plates spinning at once than I did as a kid, so I'm going to have to get very cunning again.

I have a few years to get match fit in this, but I empathize immensely with those with fewer tech skills.

Is the assumption here that 'children' access porn accidentally or because of curiousity about sex? That might be true for the very young to maybe 12ish bracket - but my guess is that teens, and especially teen boys, access porn as a masturbatory aid. To that end, they'll deliberately seek it out and they probably know about corners of the internet that you and I have never dreamt of. Caveat - my mention of boys is because most porn is produced by males and for males.

THIS WILL NOT WORK. Anybody can and will use proxies and VPN's to bypass these restrictions for free and with ease.

It's a totally pointless exercise being done by a load of politicians who feel they've got to be seen to be doing something. It will not make any difference at all in the long run.

It's posturing. I can go to an official site, register, pay my fee and access safe porn. Equally, I can go to a site which hosts amateur videos and access for free. Or I can virus dodge on dingier websites.

They could enforce some daft rules on those if they wanted, but that wouldn't stop half the porn I come across.
Instagram - not porn, but can get pretty dirty and get away with it
Tumblr - straight up porn
According to DP, plenty other non-porn sites have tonnes of porn.

So blocking porn sites isn't going to do a thing. It's up to parents to enforce their own rules at home, and ultimately, raise your kids with the knowledge that they will access porn at some point - even if it is when they're older - so remind them that porn is a performance, not strict reality. And it's okay to watch porn!

Ultimately, kids are tech savvy. They'll get around whatever stops are put in place. I was a wuss as a kid, but probably first accessed porn when I was around 13. I was curious. It didn't damage my body image or my reality on sex. My DP was torrenting porn as a teen. This was prior to parental controls. When I was young, all I had to do was remember to delete the browsing history!

There was an attempt years ago to have porn sites use a triple X domain to make them easy to filter, but it failed. It would not have dealt with people who mislabel their images, but it would have been a start.
www.wired.com/2003/08/sites-reconsider-x-rated-domain/

This Gov is not tech savvy and is in charge of regulating something they dont understand.

I was talking to my brother the other day about kids and access to porn (my 12yo dd had been on pornhub) and he was helping me out locks on her phone. The thing he said though which kind of rings true is that if you lock down everything and they are that determined to find porn or whatever they may end up looking in much darker places to find it. There's always a way if they really want to and the best course of action is education.

This wouldn't work in the slightest. Believe it or not, kids will access porn no matter what.

The actual percentage of kids accidentally stumbling across porn is very low. Plus at such a you do age they shouldn't be using the Internet unsupervised anyway, teach kids to go play outside or something. Of course there are research projects and games and such but the child shouldn't be leaving that site at that point.

With older kids, they're seeing porn because they're looking for it. Not just boys but girls too, pretty much equally, it just seems too societally ingrained that "girls don't like porn and don't masturbate" for parents to see this. Instead of waiting for the government to create some pointless measure that'll give a false sense that your child isn't seeing anything explicit, every parent should be able to openly discuss porn with their teenagers just like any other sex related topic.

Also as a side note, a lot of the comments here have been extremely whorephobic. Porn may be largely made by men but with your whole shut it down attitude you'd also be hindering a lot of women's careers. And if anything, it would harm female creators much more severely as they tend to run independent sites that people would be less willing to put their card info into before seeing the content.

Utterly pointless. They can't stop anybody watching Game of Thrones before it's TV premiere how the fuck are they going to stop people watching porn?

We have to have a cultural shift. Make porn fucking dirty. Make it not okay for 6 pm sitcoms to joke about Dad and teen son watching porn.

I am a smoker, I feel uncomfortable as fuck now smoking more or less anywhere. 15 years ago I had no issue smoking in a playground (of the park variety) now I would be utterly aware how socially unacceptable it was. It's not impossible to change attitudes in a generation.

This Gov is not tech savvy and is in charge of regulating something they don't understand

It's terrifying isn't it? I really hope that they secretly know they can't actually do these things rather than really thinking they can.

Anybody can and will use proxies and VPN's to bypass these restrictions for free and with ease

Indeed, I have a paid VPN now. To be fair though you wouldn't even need that. Who are they going to prosecute and how? It boggles the mind.

Possibly the one and only good thing the Tories have done.

However, the problem remains that porn no longer just exists on porn sites: it's on Tumblr, Reddit, snapchat, Instagram etc etc. People, including children, are creating their own sexual imagery using mobile phones. Furthermore, as new porn sites are created, will credit card walls be imposed on all them? Are the government going to be able to keep up?

Juts not sure this can be controlled anymore. Definitely welcome restrictions on the main hub sites though.

I am a smoker, I feel uncomfortable as fuck now smoking more or less anywhere. 15 years ago I had no issue smoking in a playground (of the park variety) now I would be utterly aware how socially unacceptable it was. It's not impossible to change attitudes in a generation.

And why's that? Partly - in fact arguably mainly - because of the indoor smoking ban - because of a change to the law.

You cannot just persuade human beings, including teenagers, not to look at an endlessly proliferating supply of sexual imagery when it's just a click away. Human beings are sexual creatures and respond to sexual stimuli, which is why porn barons are making billions.

The only way porn culture cannot be combated is through prohibitive regulation. Fact.

And thinking about it, children aren't allowed to buy cigarettes are they? Would you argue that they should be able to?

And if anything, it would harm female creators much more severely as they tend to run independent sites that people would be less willing to put their card info into before seeing the content.

Tough shit, frankly. Man or woman, if you're part of a capitalist industry that is making money from commodifying women's bodies then you can fuck right off.

So gay male porn is OK?

So gay male porn is OK?

Imo, no.

And why's that? Partly - in fact arguably mainly - because of the indoor smoking ban - because of a change to the law.

Definitely a change in the law but not just that one. It was multifaceted and incredibly effective. This is half arsed (and unenforceable).

One of the key similarities between porn and old views on smoking is that both were not for kids but okay and normal for adults. Now smoking isn't okay for anyone, it's anti social, it's irresponsible. Porn is still fine for adults, this law doesn't even try and challenge that.

And thinking about it, children aren't allowed to buy cigarettes are they?

Or access porn.

Would you argue that they should be able to?

Did I say anywhere kids should be allowed to watch porn? No. I said this law is fucking pointless and either terrifyingly naive or disingenuous.

Children are effectively allowed to access porn. This law will ensure that there is some of it that CAN'T access, just as children CAN'T buy tobacco products.

Furthermore, the smoking ban did reinforce the idea that smoking is NOT entirely ok for adults to do. Similarly this law could strongly suggest that porn is something elicit and regulated as opposed to being open to all. Adults will have to give their credit card details and risk fraud. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

What law would you suggest in its' place?

Children are effectively allowed to access porn. This law will ensure that there is some of it that CAN'T access, just as children CAN'T buy tobacco products

This law will be so ineffective as to make no difference. I really can't go any further with this aspect of the debate if you honestly think this will work in any sort of meaningful way.

Furthermore, the smoking ban did reinforce the idea that smoking is NOT entirely ok for adults to do

Yep, that's my point. That law was effective. It was well thought out, it was enforceable, it was preceded by campaigns and combined with other measures.

Similarly this law could strongly suggest that porn is something elicit and regulated as opposed to being open to all

Maybe, but I doubt it. Much like the extreme porn laws it has had little fan fair and that certainly hasn't been the message the politicians introducing it have tried to put across.

Adults will have to give their credit card details and risk fraud

No they wont.

What law would you suggest in its' place?

I am fine with this law as part of wider measures and a wider campaign if that's what it was. I would change the way it was announced get loud cross-party support, have a media blitz with womens/childrens/trafficking charitites supporting it. I would combine it with adverts about the dangers and effects of porn, a ban on talking about or alluding to porn pre watershed, I would bring extreme porn laws in line with this one (ie not just enforced against UK producers), I would also review those extreme porn laws because at the moment they seem rather odd. I would commission proper research on porn, its contents and its producers in order to create some targetted (evidence based) harm reduction and education. It would be part of a long term strategy.