Be more confident

[elephanthiding]

A few years ago, at several appraisals in a row, I was repeatedly told "You know what you're doing, be more confident."

Years have past, I am more experienced, and I'm pretty good at what I do.

At a work meeting the other day, my boss heaped praise on me, which I don't feel comfortable receiving, but am grateful. He said 'I don't like saying exceptional, but you're very very very good at...' Then he turned it into a 'shit sandwich', giving me the negative feedback in the middle of the positive: 'But sometimes it would be good if you appeared less confident. You're very good, and what you do is correct, but it would be better if you could be more hesitant when you speak.'

I've been told similar in my last appraisal. "You contribute really good points to meetings, but you sometimes are a bit strident. You're right in what you say, of course. But be less strident."

So, I get that I'm a bolshy cow, I do. I feel that my male colleagues are never asked to be less confident or more hesitant.

I generally don't mind what people think of my personality, as long as I am good at my job, which everyone agrees I am. However, it would be nice to be liked. How do I achieve this, without peppering my speech with the 'sorry, maybe, I think, you're right, but how about' stuff that made me appear underconfident early in my career? No one likes an arse.

How to speak as an equal to a man, without being perceived as an arse, please?

Become a man?
I don't think there's a way for a woman to speak as an equal to a man and not be perceived as arse, while we still live in a patriarchy.

Men notice that you consider yourself their equal, and they're pissed off.

Ha! And that OP Is the million dollar question.

Could it be an issue of softening your tone, smiling more, speaking more softly, so the content is definite and certain, but wrapped in a way that's easier (for them) to hear?

(Just so you know, I fine it ridiculous your are being told this)

I'm not sure it is possible. I am in the same situation. It's wearing. I am in a role only for a year, so I am speaking out all I want and calling them up on everything. I'm 9 months in and I am getting a little tired...

I've hired a middle aged white woman and an immigrant black man so far. Not that I want to make a point, but hey funny, turns out these two stood out above the crowd for the money we are paying...mediocre white men can apparently get more.

I interrupt golden boys at meetings and contradict the CEO in front of others. I am not sure if I am just bitter now, or actually doing some good and breaking them in a little for the women that are coming behind me.

Women should not be punished for being self assured. It's abuse.

Confident doesn't equal strident in my experience. It is possible to be confident without appearing strident. Utvthe jey here is what does your line manager think it means?

Empress
Interrupting and contradicting are not signs of feminism. They are signs of rudeness. If a man interrupted me whilst I was talking or making a point, it would be rude. The same applies in reverse.

Assertion of one's opinion is not the same as abnegation of manners. The two can co-exist

The strident comment was my previous boss. I challenged him at the time that I speak less in meetings than the men, and that 'strident' is a term only used about women. If he could given examples where he felt I needed to make my point less forcefully, rather than general criticism, I'd happily reflect on that. I was fairly strident about it! we established a list of words that are only used about women- think feisty, bossy, etc, and that I didn't want to hear any words he wouldn't use about the men, and to think 'would I criticise Elephant for this if she had a penis?' If he would, then I want to be pulled up on it. If he'd let it go with a man, I expect the same courtesy. He conceded the point.

I have been told off for speaking too quietly, and my voice is naturally quiet. This is a problem in meetings, as I can say something and no one hears it, so I say it louder, a few people look, and indicates I have something to say, so the third time I say it louder still, and people think I'm raising my voice. I have to tell myself 'quite again' when I have people's attention.

I could probably do with smiling more in meetings. Cheer up, love.

I think interrupting can be. When someone is dominating the conversation and has been talking over women, then yes, I think interrupting is feminist.

I'm well into middle age. I am tired of treading on eggshells and having to be very careful to package up what I do in a way that everyone approves of to a standard that my male colleagues do not have to meet.

I'm well into middle age. I am tired of treading on eggshells and having to be very careful to package up what I do in a way that everyone approves of to a standard that my male colleagues do not have to meet.

High-fives Empress.

Also, what a brilliant conversation to have had with your boss Elephant. Just calmly and assertively drawing his attention to gendered language ("strident", "feisty", "shrill", "bossy"...) and asking him to stop and think "would I say this to someone with a penis?"

"How to speak as an equal to a man, without being perceived as an arse, please?"

You need to find the right man.

Most men simply cannot hear a woman speaking as an equal to them, without perceiving her as an arse.

It's not you that needs to change, it's men.

But you can't control that. Only men can.

Did you see the article where catlin Moran referenced a focus group of equal numbers of men and woman, in these focus groups woman are considered to be dominating the conversation if they take more than 45% of the air time in a mixed male female group...

elephant I've recently been told that I'm too assertive in meetings but I also need to be more confident . In the same feedback session
I'm really really fucked off with it. I see so many of my female colleagues being criticised for their delivery style, if it happens with men it's because those men have done something truly out of order (such as telling someone outright they are wrong over a difference of opinion). Women it seems to be just stating an opinion.
I don't know what the answer is, at the moment I feel like it might be jacking in work and staying at home like a good little wife and mother.

I don't know what the answer is either. It's enraging, the blatant expectation that women failing to live up (down?) to gendered behaviour expectations of meekness and compliance and general fanning of male egos are doing something wrong and bad. I get quite cross about it at work.

Maybe we should all just do this?

Intransige I am so tempted to forward that to current boss!

Elephant I am bossy, strident and very happy to assert myself as part of my job. I work in a male dominated industry and have no problems getting my point across to groups of people who need to do what they're told to get the job done. I get described as bossy or feisty, my (male) partner gets the same description for the same behaviour. Assertiveness is something you can learn. It doesn't involve shouting or being hostile (not saying you are, just saying that's how some tackle assertiveness). It's about your belief in yourself and your ability to do your job. Do you believe in yourself for your own merits or are you trying to prove you are better than your male colleagues?

I've been where you are elephant, in fact I think I've even had those exact same conversations! I got feedback that I wasn't being assertive enough, so I made a conscious effort to do that more, and got slapped down for being aggressive! My aggression consisted of phoning someone up and asking them to explain to me what it was they wanted me to do, and then asking them if they could repeat it because I hadn't understood

I just posted on the thread about how women communicate in here, that I want to set up workplace training for me to start to address this problem, because it's not something that women can change by changing their behaviour.

My new approach to this type of feedback is to point out that it flags a diversity issue. If the answer to "behaves in a stereotypically female way" is to provide coaching about "how to behave in a more stereotypically male way", then that really just says that the organisation is intolerant of varying approaches.

And a non-diverse organisation performs badly in challenging times, many studies have shown this. So actually, by not taking the advice to behave like a man I'm helping them!

A girlfriend of mine is doing the opposite. She runs courses for men on how to communicate more effectively with women in business.

She says they keep trying to be adversarial so she encourages them to be more collaborative.

I'll pick her brains next time I see her to get more of the lowdown.