Teenagers and the cult of otherness

[IndominusRex]

I've been thinking a lot about being a teenager and how bloody hard it is, and the links between counter culture and when you grew up (I'm mid 30s), specially thinking about the Tumblr youth of today and wondering how they fit into the bigger picture of teenage tribes/trends/outsiders (#youdontunderstandme), e.g:

50s : post war birth of the teenager as a phenomenon/Rock & roll
60s : hippies
70s : punks
80s : new romantic
90s : goth (I was never brave enough to be a goth, I was just quietly depressed, but a lot of my friends were)
00s : emo
10s : trans/non binary/gender whatever

The key differences I have spotted between the current trans and previous decades are

1. age range, whereas with e.g. emo, an older person jumping on the bandwagon would have been looked down on by the teens, with trans they're looked up to and adult men have pretty much taken over. Also the huge movement to trans young children, we wouldn't have previously said that an angry toddler must be a punk and rushed them off to the hairdressers for a mohican!
2. kink culture - what began as a fairly rare and legitimate addition to the rainbow flag (transexuality) has now been hijacked by the bearded straight blokes in dresses, autogynephiles, cotton ceiling brigade, and in some cases (stephoknee) shades of paedophilia, but SJWs, misplaced dogoodery/allyism and social media have meant that any legitimate concerns about these groups are met with screams of transphobia, kink shaming and bigotry and/or threats.
3. gay and lesbian youth - I think in the past this group have been more likely to be their own separate counter culture movement, but we are now in danger of transing a generation of young gay and lesbian individuals who are being told they are the opposite sex for liking the things and people they like.
4. mainstream media - msm has bought into trans wholesale, but do we think that previous trends would have had more influence over wider culture had social media been around/as powerful, or do we think that msm's total buy in of trans is related to point 2?
5. spread - what started amongst teens as just being those who felt like outsiders now seems to have become a bit of a bandwagon, as evidenced by the domino effect seen in some all girls schools. All trends eventually cross from being other to being the norm (with the originators then moving onto the next thing) but is this something different?

So, for me, the key questions are

1. do we feel that this is a trend that's set to stay, or can we look at the bigger historical picture and think it's going to eat itself? And if the latter what to we anticipate being the tipping point? We are seeing resistance slowly building from within a number of communities, with gay eugenics, sport and crime being the cornerstones of peak trans for many. Whilst I don't believe sadly that LGB rights or VAWG are going to turn the tide I do feel that potentially one big sports upset could well cause a shift in the public mood. E.g. A male tennis player taking John McEnroe's latest outburst a little too literally and fancying a Wimbledon title in the women's game.
2. if we do believe this is a fixed period counter culture trend in line with the previous decades, what will be the next youth outsider phenomenon? And will it be better or worse than this one from a feminist perspective?

Sorry this is a bit of a brain dump but I'm really interested to hear all your thoughts.

I would take a different perspective on this. These are not mostly youth cultures but manifestations of the counter culture. Goths are more of an eighties thing and emos are 'baby goths.' There are goths of a very wide range of ages. There are still teen emos now.

Nineties was more of an era of crusties and ravers. Crusties were just a hybrid of punks and hippies.

When I was a teen in the late eighties/early nineties, we did mix socially with the older people from previous incarnations of the counter culture, especially for political activism. We also mixed with people who were the same age but different forms of counter culture- crusties mixed with teen goths, ravers etc.

The large difference now is that young people are able to go online, mix with only those who have exactly the same beliefs as them, and develop huge prejudices and insular thinking as a consequence.

I predict this will pass as the current teens are using social media that is more transitory - such as snapchat, so they don't develop these artificial fixed and curated identities the way the first users of social media have done.

Thanks for replying Sylvia! Yeah my dates are a bit wooly. And good point about the different points mixing.
Interesting idea about the changes in social media, I hadn't considered that at all and I think you're on to something!

The large difference now is that young people are able to go online, mix with only those who have exactly the same beliefs as them, and develop huge prejudices and insular thinking as a consequence.

I predict this will pass as the current teens are using social media that is more transitory - such as snapchat, so they don't develop these artificial fixed and curated identities the way the first users of social media have done.

I agree with the first paragraph and I'm very thankful if the second one is correct. Hopefully it is.

The '72 genders, respect my pronouns' issue, I agree is a youth trend. The next generation will want to reject it as youngsters rarely embrace their parents' ideals.

The trans phenomenon is different. Had it remained the provenance genuine transsexuals then we wouldn't have a problem. But this new wave of misogynistic, abusive men who fetishise women have been given a voice and are grabbing their legitimisation with both hands.

Its sex driven and therefore not time or 'era' specific. It's as old as the hills and ever present.

The only way I think the course will be altered is if it is recognised and pushed back underground.

That might come from either the appropriation of women's sports, and/or the open advocation of violence.

No one listens to feminists or LGB people, particularly. It has to be picked up by the general population.

I am sensing a backlash as the proponents of trans get more complacent over their mad assertions.

It might be that people wake up to the reality at the same time as the next generation's youth discard gender identity as passé.

As for what the next thing will be, I have no idea.

Social media and the Internet is so fast moving and such a cash cow that people are dreaming up ways all the time to exploit it.

Perhaps users will get bored and embracing real life and sunshine will be seen as edgy and avant-guarde.

It's a really interesting topic you've raised.

Part of the rise among women has to be a response to porn culture. It's frowned upon to condemn what goes on in porn, due to the sex positive thing. That then leaves the response that if women are xyz sexual stereotype, then I must not be a woman.

There's also the possibility that there is some kind of non social element to this. There seems to be some evidence and debate at the moment that anorexia and transgenderism are both related to ASD. What if the prevalence of these things is partly biological, related to trends like increasing paternal age at conception?

As for the paedophile element, recent history shows us that paedophiles will infiltrate any movement that makes itself vulnerable to such an infiltration. The trans movement is extremely vulnerable to it, because they treat trans activism as beyond reproach, and allow adults to project emotional states on to children.

Datun, I think the next generation will regard it as passe. But the next generation will not be the millennial/trans generation's children, but the people who are already children/teens now.

The millennials are the children of the boomers, but they're the generation after generation x.

The generation after the millennials will be the children of generation x, so presumably the children of many of the posters on this board.

Excellent points about porn culture rejection and also the ASD link.

SylviaPoe

That's an interesting perspective. The numerous reasons for being trans and the ages at which it occurs all seem to point towards it being less of an umbrella description for identity choice, and more for a whole range of other MH issues.

And I agree about the paedophilia aspect. When PIE was revisited in MSM a few years ago, there was widespread incredulity about how it could have teetered on the brink of legitimacy. But what I see now is paedophilia almost hiding in plain sight.

Sex positivity has sanctioned almost any kink. That and the dreadful fear of 'not respecting people's choices'.

There is no doubt that young people, girls particularly, are being let down. In my opinion.

Where is the outraged backlash about the sexual targeting of girls in schools and online? The constant pouting selfies and collusion in commodifying themselves, coupled with the alarming rate of suicide ideation and self harming, is nothing short of scandalous.

I am the first one to object to being 'nannied', but I can't help feeling the lack of an authority (for want of a better word), to speak for them.

Today 10:05 SylviaPoe

Datun, I think the next generation will regard it as passe. But the next generation will not be the millennial/trans generation's children, but the people who are already children/teens now.

Yes, I had a trouble phrasing that. Because of course generations don't all happen at the same time. It's a slow burn.

You're right Datun, we really are failing them.

That's an interesting idea OP

I think there are a few other substantial differences between the trans culture and the subcultures you listed.

Firstly, the other subcultures were all tied to music (and often literature too…spent so much time reading poetry in graveyards!). There is no 'trans' music as far as I'm aware!

Secondly, for most of those subcultures there was a big thing that you couldn't always tell who was a boy or a girl…hippy men with long hair…androgynous punks etc. The current trans movement is all about being a boy/girl/unicorn/whatever the fuck gender.

Thirdly, it was about being different, but being similar to others and enjoying shared experiences. Trans movement seems to be more about being a 'special individual' rather than a member of a physical group, as most of the shared experience is online. I don't know if it has a lot to do with the increasing individualisation/ of society and capitalist drivers.

I agree with Datun that trans is unlikely to disappear when misogynists can benefit from it. It's a perfect tool for men to continue their oppression of women, as they are able to identify as 'the most oppressed group' and are therefore seemingly beyond criticism. They aren't going to give that up easily.

But yes, hopefully young people will see this bullshit for what it is, and soon...

Kink culture is a lot more than what you mention. You are very narrow in your interpretation of kink.

I *think there are a few other substantial differences between the trans culture and the subcultures you listed.

Firstly, the other subcultures were all tied to music (and often literature too…spent so much time reading poetry in graveyards!). There is no 'trans' music as far as I'm aware!*

10s : trans/non binary/gender whatever I think it's "stans" it's a bigger influence than you think. The wars are all on line. It does not belong to just music stars but bloggers and other celebrities too. They can make and break celebrities.

I think on the op's list it does not relate to trans but stans.

The main difference to subcultures is that trans harms people. Actively harms people.

If you used to be an emo and find it rather silly as an adult, you can burn the photos and problem solved.

If, on the other hand, you had your breasts removed because you identified as nonbinary ... that's forever.

I don't think it is just another subculture. It is very harmful.

I don't think it is just another subculture. It is very harmful.

Agreed. Jazz Jennings, the poster girl for trans has been told her penis is too small to fashion a neo vagina. As far as I know, the only other alternative is to use part of the colon, which has lifelong problems. She is permanently sterile. No one wants to date her.

A male adolescent, with the face of a girl and the genitals of a prepubescent boy.

Considered an advertiser's dream for promoting trans.

One of the things that jumps out at me from your initial list is the naming of "kink culture". To me it's same old wolf, new sheep's name. Name any counter-culture - hippies in squats for example, or SWP types fighting against capitalism - and you will find predatory older men latching onto it to prey on naive, vulnerable, idealistic young people. "Kink culture" is just the latest name for this. It went on in the 60s and 70s, it still goes on now.

What in the 60s might have fallen under the label of "you've come a long way, baby, tune in, turn on and drop out (and drop your knickers while you're at it)" now falls under the label of "sex-positive lib fem (you're not allowed to say no anymore because that would hurt my tender [insert any one of Heinz 57 genders of choice] feelz)."

Predatory men will latch onto any counter-cultural ideology safe in the knowledge that inherent in the definition of counter-culture is a rejection of authority and authority figures like the police and judiciary who could (in theory if not in practice) take sexual assault seriously for the crime it is. Therefore they can predate vulnerable younger women safe in the knowledge that the counter culture has already groomed the women into not complaining about what's done to them.

Trans culture seems to amplify the teen "life's so unfair, no one understands me" narrative but offers a "solution" that combines pissing off your parents with making school treat you as a snowflake with "being on the right side of history". It's pretty compelling, especially when you add in a dose of sex and hormones

I remember a quote about the free love movement in the 70s being basically "free sex for men" ... (but I cannot find it by Google) ... so the same-old same-old?

I was born in 1996, so I suppose I'm a millennial? I feel like I'm so out of place amongst my peer-groups in my criticism of gender and trans ideology.

Elusive do your peer group have anything negative to say about gender stereotyping? I think this is the crucial issue.

This is what baffles me. They agree that gender-stereotyping is wrong... Yet they believe in the current trans ideology which simply reinforces the gender stereotypes they claim to reject. It's a mess.

And while they admit that gender stereotyping is wrong, they still believe in this magical "gender identity" thing.

They seem to try to adjust their beliefs with whatever is deemed the least offensive to marginalised groups at the time.

Thanks for explaining. At least that suggests their beliefs are not set in stone (grasping at straws!)