Is feminism really about equality?

[BemusedExpression]

I've seen it mentioned many times on these threads that feminism is about the fight for equality. Yes, feminists are concerned with attaining the best that they can for women. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, except it's less about equality, and more about the benefits acquired for females.

Sometimes these aims are the same, but sometimes, they're not.

For example, women get more lenient punishments than males for committing the same crime but feminists are less concerned about addressing this inequality as it might lead to harsher treatment for females.

Feminists strongly support women's shelters but show little interest in supporting the few shelters for males in similar positions.

Feminists campaign strongly against Female Genital Mutilation, but the campaign doesn't extend to males - if you're born male, you can expect to have your genitals mutilated soon after birth.

Fighting the cause for women? Of course they are.
Fighting the cause for true equality? Let's hear your thoughts.

Note:
1.These examples are not meant to challenge the obvious worthiness of these subjects, but to examine why we treat them unequally.

1. Please don't hate me if I've made some bad assumptions. Just put me right.

AssassinatedBeauty is right. Feminism isn't about equality.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_and_equality

Once I got past the silly, sarcastic responses, I realised this was the case and therefore the question I posed at the start of this thread has been answered. Thank you all for taking part.

Feminism today perpetuates this narrative than all men are working together to oppress women in some banana party called "patriarchy". Feminism spouts lies about a gender pay gap and domestic abuse statistics. They need to learn the difference between wages and earnings along with how domestic abuse is handled in court (grossly in favor of women despite who's guilty). The most brainwashed of "feminists" such as @AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior believe that men are just violent brutes with no compassion and a barbaric disregard for women and their freedom. In reality men are just as sensitive in most cases (probably more than women in this day in age). Men are way more likely to commit suicide than women. There are only 2 men's support shelters in the US for suicidal men. Men are more likely to die at work, they suffer worse penalties/sentences than women for similar crimes. The rape statistics for men are overwhelmingly higher than women's if you include prison rape. Men almost always lose their kids in divorce settlements unless the mother is proved insane in which case conditional visitation is provided. The list goes on. Women have their struggles too but don't think for a second that men have it easy.

Vicky:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01yyclz/p01yycjm

And it used to be in radio 4 as I remember listening to it. Probably over 20 years ago mind you.

And it used to be called the locker room.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2010/jul/01/bbc-mens-hour-radio-5-live

Derwain, the thing is, the high percentage of men committing suicide etc is down to the way gender stereotypes prevail in society, which is partly down to the patriarchy. Ott Masculinity is a problem. Ott masculinity and femininity suits the patriarchy.

I'll direct you to the excellent documentary 'no more boys and girls on the bbc,' for a better explanation than I have time for right now as the hv is coming any minute and I've a fussy feeder/ napper.

Here's the link.

BBC Two - No More Boys and Girls: Can Our Kids Go Gender-Free?
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09202jz/episodes/player

I just want to say thank you to the well informed people on MN. I came on here being “against feminism” thinking I knew it all. My previous thoughts were generated towards “who’s speaking up for the men?, I thought it was about equality?” Bla bla bla. And after reading through blogs, news articles, real people’s views and explanations, I can happily say I now understand modern day feminism! And boy am I glad I finally dared venture on to MN. However, could someone please explain to me what “MRA” means. I’m completely at a loss for what a lot of the abbreviations mean. I’ve only been on here 3 days now and just finding my feet! But hey it only took three days of reading various blogs etc to open my eyes to feminism and what real issues are there. I feel like a dummy for not seeing it before! Not sure if this will be read as I can see it’s an older post.

MRA - men's rights activist. Usually/often a man who thinks feminism has "gone too far" and is angered by that.

It's about woman being seen and treated as objects by men, even in (some) computer games the men are dressed in suits to look important and the woman are in bikinis and are prostitutes or strippers. Most woman have to be beautiful or half naked to be in programmes aimed mostly at men and yet the men are comfortably dressed and don't need to look like a model as they are taken as they are this is where the problem lies as men think woman are purely there for entertainment purposes when woman want to be treated as people the same as me are.

• that was meant to say the same as "men" are!

Yes, feminism is primarily concerned with equality. The contrary argument which you pose (why dont feminists support male causes; shelters, genital mutilation) is a slippery slope argument. It is dependent on the male and female identity having the same experience of the world.

For example fgm is a practice used to control a women's sexual experience. The same cannot be said about mgm. When you talk about equality you are also often addressing an injustice. A clear example would be the 1918 suffrage act which allowed some women the vote. Prior to that the injustice was that women werent thought of as capable of having the ability to make rational decisions at the polling station.

A recent example I can think of is when certain Daily newspapers suggested a racehorse should have been voted sportsperson of the year over Serena Williams. It would be inconceivable for any white male tennis player to be compared as less worthy of an award as an animal.

What I am trying to say is that feminism isnt unconcerned about men's feelings on the contrary. Feminism is concerned about morality and the development of humanity.

I think you have asked a good question, one that requires a long view of our understanding of a complex concept.

"The truth is men's history is more about a bunch of vain violent thieving self concerned bullying thugs and rapists, who cornered women and girls and trampled all over them for sport and to make themselves feel good."

Wow, that will need to be taken down a notch or two. It's a sound example of the kind of wild-eyed hysteria with which some men tend to associate all women (see what I did there?).

Most of the people I see carping on about how Feminists hate men and how men have it so hard are MRAs or their handmaidens (aka The Cool Girls).

I used to spend a lot of time on International Women's Day tweeting resources for whatever the theme was that year. So MVAWAG, discrimination against mothers in the workplace whatever. Until an MRA Pile on where they bleated for yonks about how I didn't care about men. Except that I (and a group of feminist friends) spend International Men's Day tweeting about mental health resources for men, stats about survival rates for prostrate cancer, CALM (the mental health charity for men - hey guess who set it up? women) etc.

Feminism is concerned about how in the past men have been discriminated against in child custody cases. In part because we recognise that keeping us pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen was how men kept women under control. Well, guess what? Children deserve to have both parents on the scene. We campaign for paternal leave. Oh boy do we do that. And guess what: a lot of men i know are really happy to have it, often want more. But a large chunk of men I've talked to about it are all about paying it lip service - some boast about putting in extra hours at work to avoid the stuff at home.

What I've encountered from the MRA types, as well as the #NotAllMen, is an unwillingness to engage. To realise that if you want something done (women's shelters, anyone? how did we get them?) you have to do it yourself. But the MRAs want us to do that for them too ("bah, there's always a march for Women's Day when do we get ours?" but don't like the answer "when you organise it - look, this is how we got mobilised…")

I'll willingly campaign for issues that affect men, but until I get an equal crack at promotion in the workplace ("oh i can't promote you, you have children, you won't be as loyal" - my MD to me in the middle of the night while I was pushing through sales at month end closing. Countless other examples available on request).