Jo Whiley: "I don't want to gesture at the Foo Fighters and have bingo wings flapping"

[Loopytiles]

Times interview today with Jo Whiley, who among other things presents from the Glastonbury festival. She's quoted as saying she steps up her fitness regime before it because when presenting she doesn't want to gesture at a band and "have bingo wings flapping".

I found this depressing: the sexism of the media/creative industries and immense pressure to be thin.

Also "bingo wings" is a very gendered term, and perhaps ageist too.

It's definitely an issue!

I will say that while attractive young women do sometimes get harassed in gyms, older women are generally ignored. I find the serious body builders at independent hardcore gyms are the friendliest and most helpful. Also most polite and good about putting things away. The cheapest chain gyms have more idiots and more young people.

If a woman my age rocked up at a serious powerlifting/bodybuilding gym and said she wanted to learn how to lift weights, I think they'd fall all over themselves to get her squatting and deadlifting (even if she has to work up to it).

So my advice to anyone thinking of braving the weight room and considering joining a gym would be to Google "bodybuilding gym in (your town). But I understand that that is probably not appealing to most women.

Just remember that big chain health clubs make their money on people who don't actually show up.

May I add to Justs comprehensive and helpful comments that it's a myth that you can't build muscle after the age of 50. I've loved finding strength and endurance in my upoer body, and the side-effect of actual muscles is a veey welcome bonus! Last time I had a sports massage the guy said he could tell I worked out, as 'your back is very muscular.' I floated home!
I still need to asdress my lower body and core, but the dodgy shoulder which was what prompted all this exercise in the first place needs a lot of consistent work, which doesn't leave much time for anything else.
Back to Jo Whiley: the simpering thing, yes, and the 'new music champion' badge never felt genuine to me. But I agree, she shouldn't care about anyone else's opinion of her arms.

So hold on, we've gone from saying that it's terribly sad that Jo feels the need to go to the gym in the run up to TV appearance to minimise bingo wings, to saying that ALL women should be doing weight lifting full stop (subtext if they don't they are letting themselves down / putting themselves at risk).

Right.

The tone of this

A bit of friendly advice is one thing but this imperative stuff I find very offputting.

I can't get worked up about Jo Whiley other than as a reminder that it's still a man's world

My understanding of the weightlifting thing (which I agree with, BTW) is that women should (hate that word, but there it is) be conscious of needing to do weight bearing exercise because of the greater risk of women developing osteoperosis. That's just a biological fact. Nothing to do with avoiding bingo wings, but with avoiding broken hips in your 70s.

That said, there is some mileage to be got out of a feminist analysis of the beauty standards inherent in "fit is the new slim" or "the new sexy" or whatever it is (and I speak as a former fitness instructor and lifelong fitness nut who would want to be fit even if it made me look terrible, because it makes me feel good). If I don't exercise, I feel terrible, but while a large proportion of that is because of the feel-good factor for me, there's an element of vanity too. I like my muscles, and I like the way exercise makes me look, too. It's complicated.

Whoops, forgot the original point of the thread. I have absolutely no opinion on Jo Whiley

women should (hate that word, but there it is) be conscious of needing to do weight bearing exercise because of the greater risk of women developing osteoporosis

And if you think about how much energy society puts into reminding us of the limits of our fertility, while disguising it as a public service announcement... yet this important issue is only really mentioned from the point of view of mocking how we look.

Yes smooch can agree with all of that.

I think that women are told what to do day in day out in a concerned tone and much of it is genuinely intended but it's just too much already and just adds to this background noise of "you're not doing enough, you're not doing it right, you're inadequate, you should be doing XYZ" that leads so many women to this sort of permanent low self esteem scenario. Men do not have nearly so much directives / guilt / articles / stuff so much STUFF about how to be this kind of optimum human who is all things to all people and perfect and on a totally level emotional playing field at all times and all the rest of it. They are "allowed" to be imperfect humans who are given advice but in much less quantity and in much less of a prescriptive manner.

Yy queen you are so right!

I think there's a lot of truth in that, queen.

Which is why I avoid reading magazines. Bullshit designed to make women feel shit and buy shit.

Absolutely - I'm with you on the magazines. But, having spent my mid-late forties with the pain of arthritis which has now pretty much gone or is manageable even on a bad day, i say don't deny yourself something that makes you feel so much better and will extend your quality of life just because a mag/the internet/every fucking bastard is telling you to do it.
I look shit in my kit at the gym but I don't care!

I was coming from a perspective of "bingo wings aren't about beauty, they're about health and strength and independence."

It frustrates me that women are not encouraged to be physically strong. There's a bunch of "acceptable" forms of exercise for women, with the assumption that we want to be smaller.

Now that I'm 47, I'm not just worried about how I look. Sure, I want to look good. But what really motivates me is the thought of getting older and frail. With physical decline I think comes mental and emotional decline. My mother's last decade was unhappy because her health limited her mobility, and her energy. And with that came a sort of unhappy fear of the world.

Good post Just.

Hear hear.

I look GREAT in gym gear

As for bingo wings, my arms have bloody cellulite! Grr.

As for bingo wings, my arms have bloody cellulite! Grr.

My 4yo daughter has a bit of cellulite. (She's very skinny, as well as healthy; we're a skinny family.)

This has been an eye-opener for me, because she is so obviously perfect. So young and healthy and always running around. The media makes such a big deal about cellulite being this really bad thing and almost like a personal failing. I now realise that it's just the result of having very fine skin and a particular body type (or one of a range of body types, obviously.)

I've been thinking about this thread and strength/health/fitness from a feminist perspective quite a lot since I first read it, so thank you all.

Cellulite is a feminist issue chumpchange - the difference in men's skin to women's means that they are significantly less likely to develop cellulite. In fact cellulite has been described as a secondary sex characteristic because it is so tied to the way that women store fat.

I can't imagine that Jo Whiley or any other female presenter would get away with that argument though if they dared to have anything other than perfectly smooth thighs.

Also, just re-read and that sounded so snooty - I was agreeing with you rather than lecturing!

Just yet of course - I'm not saying anyone shouldn't do anything just that all in all it gets to be too much.

Of course some of this ties in with women in society generally - so many girls give up sport around /puberty / teens, and this is tied into ideas of how women are supposed to be, what they are supposed to do, how they are supposed to look and of course commentary and embarrassment around their bodies. And like the celllulite thing, it's all a bit "male as default" - an active powerful body is a man's and for a woman to look active and powerful she sort of needs to hit some sweet spot between looking almost masculinely muscled yet also feminine. Things like larger breasts, larger bums, larger thighs which are natural body shape on lots of women are simply seen as too wobbly, uncontrollable, vaguely obscene and this is backed up by the stuff men say and shout at women and girls when they are exercising.

And through to old age - we are supposed to get on with it, do everything and be uncomplaining, and time for "us" is something that is really sort of weird with women. No-one says that a man going off to play saturday football is having "me time" or whatever it's just his thing off he goes and does it. For a woman even the necessities like getting your fucking hair cut is deemed a luxurous break from the trials of life I can't imagine what the response would be if we all started fucking off for whole days / weekends at a time en masse as so many men do. And so as we age, this is not a "thing", exercise, not at school, not in public, not when we've got kids, and then we get older, and really how many 60 yo women have the courage to rock up to where the 20something men are all doing their weights with theit little belts on. Great for those who do - but accessibility is key. And time, and money.

Anyway sorry massive rant. With so many of these things I feel that things are pitched against us. Like with BF which did my head in when I was pg there were leaflets and directives and "you must or dooooom" stuff but NO SUPPORT post-natally when it would actually make a difference because £££. It's the same with this - if women are to get into weightbearing exercise later in life which will save NHS £££ and improve quality of life immensely then there needs to be investment.