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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What can companies do to close the gender pay gap?

12 replies

sjd294 · 23/06/2017 13:26

Unsurprisingly, a survey by CV Library showed 57% of people feel more needs to be done on top of the reporting legislation to tackle the issue. Here are some suggestions.

clive.unum.co.uk/content/c09513f8-7b49-8c94-a7e9-76e6fed26792

OP posts:
FieldsOfWheat · 29/06/2017 22:07

I think a large reason for the pay gap (apart from maternity leave/women going PT) is not with the company, but with the confidence of men and women.

I think many companies have equal starting salaries/increases for men and women, and try not to discriminate.

The problem comes when you get to negotiate your payrises or salary - companies will often give you what you think you're worth. I think men think they're worth more, on average. Or at least push for it more, whereas women are happy to be where they are.

This is an anecdote but - my male friend started a grad job on 26k and one year later (on 27.5k) tells me "I'm having a meeting with my manager, I reckon I'm worth 45k! I won't get it but I'll push for it". I was on the same salary at the time and thought he was taking the piss. He got a payrise to 36k. I thought he was joking but he was serious! I was like jesus, I'd never openly ask for a payrise LET ALONE one of 15k+!

I'm starting a new job and even though I'm a "loud and confident" woman, I was prepared to take a pay cut and really can't justify why I'd need a much higher salary than now, other than to pay for my commute. I negotiated a starting salary of a tiny bit more than now, but still a paycut with the commute. I'm pretty sure that even if I am amazing at this job, I won't have the audacity to demand 45k after one year.

Is that part of the problem?

QuentinSummers · 29/06/2017 22:11

fields there is research that suggests part of the reason women don't ask for pay rises is because I'd they do they get penalised for it Sad I also started a new job for a paycut, I'm kicking myself now especially as all the men who've started recently don't have my skills and experience but came in at a higher grade. But I wasn't offered the higher grade.

I think companies need to standardise pay more.

VestalVirgin · 29/06/2017 22:25

I think companies need to standardise pay more.

This.

Women aren't more confident for good reason - confidence is seen as negative trait in women and is punished.

Promotions should also be more standardized, though I am not sure how that could be done. Perhaps by demanding more justification for doing things like promoting the brand-new male employee over the woman who has worked there for years.
That's not failsafe, but would at least having to fill out an questionnaire on why they think the new guy is more competent than the woman would make them think harder about just why they want to do it, and remind them that they could promote the woman even if she has never asked for a promotion.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 29/06/2017 22:26

Sort out structural issues like long pay scales (which is one of the reasons pay gaps open up in supposedly egalitarian workplaces like universities). If it takes, say, 7 years on average to reach "rate for the job" and a woman has two breaks for maternity leave (getting a nominal "meets expectations" in her annual review for those years) she falls behind her male cohort. Realistically for most jobs it takes a year to learn the ropes, another year to get good at it, and by year three you should be doing it well - no need for a seven year long progression. (This one is an issue close to my heart as it's almost certainly the reason why my employer has a 10% gap in pay between women and men - it's cock up, not conspiracy, but my pay packet is still even more derisory than that of my male colleagues).

Unless there is a business case as to why the job has to be full time, advertise all vacancies as open to part-timers/flexible working/ job shares.

Discourage a culture of presenteeism (which is counterproductive anyway - in most jobs, beyond 35 to 40 hours a week productivity per hour goes down, mistakes go up, and by about 45 to 50 hours, you're making so many mistakes you're getting less done than you would have on a shorter week). Don't make promotion/ performance pay/ bonuses depend on "number of hours your arse is on the seat"(which discriminates against anyone with caring responsibilities - predominantly women).

Barring jobs like travelling sales people, try to cut down on family-unfriendly work travel - how much of it can be done by phone/video conference? Don't make performance related pay dependent on going to the big meeting in London to schmooze if half your staff find it really difficult to have a night away from home.

Bring in clear and transparent criteria for pay rises - not amorphous words like "Bloggs shows flair in how he handles situations."

Make pay scales transparent so people know how much the rate for the job is and where they are relative to it.

Don't slice and dice job descriptions to try to make it hard to find direct comparators (e.g. have a job grade of "adminstrative assistant" rather than separate "soft people skills facilitator" and "technical advisor" which involve roughly the same amount of nous and deliver the same benefit to the firm, but magically the former is mostly women, who just happen to be paid less than the latter, who are magically mostly men...)

QuentinSummers · 29/06/2017 22:30

This could be relevant too
hbr.org/2016/04/research-vague-feedback-is-holding-women-back

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 29/06/2017 22:32

The gender pay gap at the Department for Education is larger than 5%. The Secretary of State for Education is also Minister for Equalities, and has responsibility for the Government Equalities Office and Equality and Human Rights Commission. It is a poor indictment.

SittingAround1 · 29/06/2017 22:39

I agree with making pay scales transparent.

Employers should make sure they don't mistake confidence with competance.

Give flexibility with working hours (within reason depending on job, I'm thinking office based jobs) so mothers aren't penalised if they're having to fit in home issues (which they shouldn't have to do anymore than men but in reality it doesn't seem to work like this).

I think a lot of women don't go for higher pay rises so they can make sure they're available for family without feeling overly pressured at work.

Society needs to place a higher value on more traditional 'female' roles which are paid less.

NameChangr678 · 29/06/2017 22:46

there is research that suggests part of the reason women don't ask for pay rises is because I'd they do they get penalised for it

Ahhh. See, even though I'm outspoken and haven't encountered any sexism in the workplace (to my knowledge - no comments or harrassment), I did think I'd be being a PITA and getting off on the wrong foot if I asked for too much to start. I mean, why? It's a new job and my old job experience is completely irrelevant for it. Also, I simply don't think I'm worth more, having not done the job - I'm starting on significantly more than the usual starting salary for that job (I know because it's my friend's old job) and already feel a bit guilty, like "shit, I better prove myself".

Likewise, couldn't bring myself to ask for a comically large payrise of 17.5k - I do think it would reflect badly and look grabby. Obviously my friend didn't think that, then again, sometimes his social skills are a bit.....direct Grin

I was about to argue with the "Society says confidence is a bad trait in girls" point but then remembered that Instagram literally makes all it's money off girls feeling shit about themselves.

FieldsOfWheat · 29/06/2017 22:47

Oops, NCed by accident

slightlyglitterbrained · 29/06/2017 23:08

It isn't just about women not asking for raises, but about a system that rewards certain types of behaviours that are either rarer, harder, or impossible for women to emulate.

impossible : the "abrasiveness" problem - men are confident, women are abrasive. Unconscious bias means that the promotion/salary discussions in management meetings will be looking for reasons not to promote women, but will be looking for reasons to promote men. (The old "women need to prove themselved beyond all reasonable doubt, men just need to show promise").

Add to that the following:

  • lack of salary transparency (jobs advertised w/o pay band, just "competitive"). Keeping pay bands secret.
  • basing salary offers on previous salary, meaning that once behind is always behind.
  • artificial limits on raises for internal promotions or moved - e.g. someone promoted internally to "Senior Tech Wrangler" might get their rise capped to 10%, putting them 10k below someone hired externally. This disadvantages women who for various reasons don't move companies as often as men.
OlennasWimple · 30/06/2017 00:29

What M0stly said.

Is the pay gap at the DfE explained by the fact that men are over-represented in the more senior grades, and women in the more junior grades? Or is that a grade by grade gap, AndNone?

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 30/06/2017 07:18

So many great suggestions on this thread.

I agree with almost all of them. Not sure about banning traveling sales people. Lots of people travel for work, you can't ban it.

Can I add better paternity leave. For example makes could get 1-2 months of leave paid at 90% to be taken at the end of their partners maternity leave.
Men need to step up more at home.

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