Why is this a protest?

[Elendon]

I understand that it's hot weather and the male students want to make a point but to do it with white shirts and ties and black shoes and socks? It's like wearing female clothing is abhorrent to them.

Loopy I agree. Girls protesting a "no trousers" rule would not have garnered the same reaction.

That's what the OP should perhaps have been posting about, rather than calling these boys "dense" for effectively initiating change within their school.

I would absolutely support my DD to protest any such rule, but fortunately her school is more sensible and allows skirts, trousers and skirts for both sexes.

Some of these responses are pretty funny.
When men moan on the internet about not having some of the things women have e.g. Race for Life, we tell them "why don't you go out and organise one yourself?".
When they do go out and do something for themselves we're also outraged by it.

any school which forbids girls wearing trousers (usually an issue in winter when trousers are warmer) would be liable to exactly the same form of protest, and would be on dodgy ground legally if they chose to enforce a gender based uniform. I think the boys in this story did a good job, well done.

When they do go out and do something for themselves we're also outraged by it.

Are "we"? Most women are hugely supportive of campaigns for men. I know of girls' schools who do annual collections and events for male charities.

Also the notion that it's women who are "outraged" when men do anything for men rather than men who are outraged whenever women and girls do anything for ourselves is risible. Any feminist campaign or even statement online is met with "what about men", never mind the misogyny.

A number of schools force girls to wear skirts. Similarly some workplaces are still able to insist on women wearing make up and high heels as the government refused to tighten up legislation on the matter.

I think it is utterly appalling that one was told he couldn't wear a skirt because of his hairy legs.

Wtaf? So shaved legs is part of the school uniform? Do they apply that rule to girls?

That statement shows how normalised the idea girls should shave their legs is as it's suggesting skirts are only acceptable if legs are completely devoid of hair - shown also by some boys shaving their legs before wearing skirts here.

By the way I think boys wearing skirts is a great idea.

However - I think I sense why there may be some discomfort. I think many on this board tend to think in general that gender norms disadvantage women and girls - in fact, that is what they are for: gender is a hierarchical system with conventions designed to show that the masculine is at the head of the hierarchy and to subordinate the feminine.

In general, people who argue with that very broadly stated position, or who quibble about "the patriarchy", or say things like "yeah but women are equal now" or "well actually society is basically set up for women nowadays" blah blah blah - people like that can usually be safely identified as ideological and political enemies.

So these boys are cutting across these safe and familiar lines, because:

• they have adopted something traditionally feminine for the sake of comfort. It is very unusual that the feminine version of anything is healthier or more comfortable, so this feels like it's drawing attention to an implied whole raft of feminine comforts that do not exist.

• they are being good naturedly applauded for adopting feminine conventions. This cuts across the normal convention which is that the feminine receives contempt, and a male who adopts the feminine is reviled by society even more than feminine women receive day to day micro-aggressions as part of their lot. It feels uncomfortable if we think that people somehow believe that to be feminine is generally to be considered clever, witty, brave, and generally a good thing to be. usually it is not.

So these two things together make certain people uncomfortable: how have these boys got away with it? This isn't normal life. I hope people don't think this is normal life!

It's ok. People don't think this is normal life.

I think it's great, because

• I like "boys can wear skirts" a lot more than "skirt wearing people are feminine necessarily"
• I find skirts more comfortable than trousers / shorts and hate the "if clothing was rational everyone would wear trousers" narrative. I have argued against it on here before. Sometimes skirts just are better.
• I like that society is shifting to the extent that boys would consider doing this. when I was at school I think boys would literally rather have gone naked than been seen in a skirt.

Are "we"?

Well, yes. Some of "us" apparently are judging by this thread.

So you've taken some comments to mean "we". Never mind that so many men and boys attack pretty much any feminist cause or women standing up for one another. Odd.

NoLove, you are bringing other (admittedly important) issues into this debate.
Almost like those "what about men" comments when discussing women's issues, you're asking "what about women" when discussing men's (boy's) issues.

Hmm.
My initial response to this was positive, but I agree with StAlphonzo I have been wondering about this a bit myself though and the feminist point of view on it. I feel like there is something slightly off about it but can't quite work out what!

I think it's to do with the reason the protest was effective and the wider context. The boys were wearing skirts in order to embarrass (?) the Head into allowing shorts - it's the fact that's it's generally considered odd/laughable for boys to wear skirts is what makes it an eye-catching protest. The boys are relying on gender stereotypes for their own cause. I can't help but think of uber-lefty men who are all about the class war, whilst ignoring their own sexism... perhaps it's just me who's met too many of them!

Plus if they are allowed to wear skirts (?), because to ban them would be sex discrimination, there's the added twist of the law being officially equal whilst in everyday reality the sexism/gender stereotypes continue as usual.

Previous "boys in skirts" stories have had the boys just wanting to wear skirts, which is quite different.

We will know that society has stopped being sexist when there is no longer any correlation between someone's chromosomes and whether they choose to wear skirts or trousers, wear makeup or don't, or choose specific subjects to study. Incidentally there will therefore no longer be any such thing as "dressing as" or "presenting as" a man or a woman.

Won't happen for a while but it's the media stirring up the "hilarity" of "ooh look boys in skirts" that are at fault in the current case. The boys themselves may be among those who help build that non-sexist future.

I think we are lucky her we all got a message on Sunday saying shorts and t-shirts for pupils and staff,non uniform and just for this week.Nice to see some sense in School that's normal anal about uniform but think it's more about staff being hot too.

Our school allows boys to wear PE kit in summer term (supermarkets don't sell school uniform shorts in secondary school sizes so a shorts protest wouldn't get very far anyway)
The shaving makes me uncomfortable. Would a girl who is "too hairy" be in violation of the rules?!
I hope that the rules are changed so that boys get a cooler choice for hot days and that if this is a school that doesn't allow trousers in winter for girls then it changes the rules pronto.

It's a ridiculous rule. The protest has been a little successful in that the school are considering revising their policy. In an all girls school where the uniform is strictly skirts only even in freezing temperatures, I wonder whether a similar protest would have worked. Somehow I doubt it.

I get what elendon and scallops are saying

I have been wondering about this a bit myself though and the feminist point of view on it. I feel like there is something slightly off about it but can't quite work out what!

And i agree with the above

I should point out that dds uniform is a skirt, white shirt and tie with black socks and doc martens style shoes. So the boys looked fine to me

And it would have been the popular boys and their friends who did this, any other boy would probably be teased.

Not having a pop at the boys, if my boys had wanted to do this i would have supported it...but it would still make me a bit uneasy

Oh and i very much liked antigrinchs post

Yes, I agree with AntiGrinch too. I was glad the boys wore skirts, but there was something niggling at me and I couldn't quite articulate what it was, but that post does it perfectly. It's that context of always having to justify why feminism is still needed and why no, a girl's lot in life isn't easier.

I find skirts more comfortable than trousers / shorts and hate the "if clothing was rational everyone would wear trousers" narrative. I have argued against it on here before. Sometimes skirts just are better.

Skirts and dresses are brilliant in this weather- goodness only knows why anyone would choose to wear trousers, or even shorts for that matter.

I was in Cos in Covent Garden yesterday and there was a young man wearing a black cotton skirt. It was one of those avant garde things designers like Issey Miyake or Yohji Yamamoto do but definitely a skirt.
I don't agree trousers are better in winter. My son used to wear the same weight of uniform trousers all year but with trousers you have socks and the rest of the leg is bare. In winter the girls at his school wore heavy wool pleated skirts, thick tights and boots. The skirts were much warmer.

I don't agree trousers are better in winter. My son used to wear the same weight of uniform trousers all year but with trousers you have socks and the rest of the leg is bare. In winter the girls at his school wore heavy wool pleated skirts, thick tights and boots. The skirts were much warmer.

I personally wear skirts and dresses quite often and whilst I was in the years with uniform at school always wore a skirt but I think the issue isn't about which is better but giving the choice. Girls and boys should all be free to wear skirts, shorts and trousers as part of their uniform.

"I'm not sure why the OP can't grasp this. "

Oh badcat you fool!
It's quite clear the op is the only one who can grasp this and everyone else are just idiots who fail to match up to her incredible skills of comprehension.

The girls should be able to wear trousers in winter and shorts in summer, should they prefer to do so.

Girls and boys should all be free to wear skirts, shorts and trousers as part of their uniform

But there is an undertone by some posters whenever this subject is discussed of "eugh- skirts, how horrible" . It seems a bit odd if one starts from the position that things associated with women are undervalued to be happy to go along with that.