Sixth form clothing policy - help me verbalise why I feel uncomfortable

[NaturalBlondeYeahRight]

DD in lower sixth. Usual British weather has meant that the 'appropriate clothing' issue hasn't cropped up before this heatwave. Now they are having stroppy assemblies threatening to send home students (girls mostly I'd imagine) to change if it's not suitable or even being asked to leave. Really? Because of a strappy top?
This policy is all very vague though. Usually they are quite relaxed and kids are allowed to be pretty casual. What is too short? Why are they role models? Feel very cross but they are being very careful to not specify the girls but we are all well aware at who they are aiming this at.
My only confliction is that I work in an environment where we all have to be smart- and there are times and places for a dress code. Chuck some stuff at me please.

Why do young men and women who are intelligent enough to sit A levels need two years of dress rehearsal to learn about suitable office wear?

Notaslim - you obviously have never taught Sixth formers
More seriously, some students do need to be taught how to dress appropriately for the environment. I remember discussing with a member of staff who was teaching a particular course and was introducing some lessons where they were learn about to prepare for interviews. She had realised that some were going to interviews dressed inappropriately. it was quite complicated but she had identified that they weren't getting the guidance from home.

I don't think anyone would dispute the utility of teaching sixth formers about appropriate clothing for interview/job situations. But that surely doesn't need to relate to the everyday dress code? I'm always baffled by the whole 'business dress' for sixth form thing. I don't really see what it achieves, other than irritate the students and give the teachers additional hassle!

The girls feel quite angry as well but school refuse to even have a grown up conversation with them. In my opinion to avoid being called out on it.

I suspect this is the problem. The policy is deliberately vague. Perhaps they are uncomfortable getting into specifics. Because the focus will then be on why is a short skirt wrong? Why is a strappy top wrong? Cos you know, teenagers will ask.

Unfortunately, it's backfired anyway, simply because it is too vague.

OP, although I understand your daughter wanting to make a point, from a parent's point of view, I'm a firm believer in picking your battles.

Let her write a sensible, mature email pointing out that the vagueness of the policy is leading to difficulties in interpretation. She can also make a point of highlighting that the policy should apply to both sexes.

Meanwhile suggest to her that she adheres to what she suspects is the policy goal.

Hopefully she will get a sensible reply, and it might force the school to take a more specific line with what they have in mind. And why.

The vagueness is the annoying part. The school should have the courage of its convictions and be able to defend them adequately.

Agree, why does learning what you wear for an interview need to afford what you wear everyday. Again, I'm 45, never had a dress code, I think at various times bra straps and possibly a bit of midriff has been on show, but I wouldn't dress like that for an interview.

To me it's all part and parcel of the British obsession with uniforms, which other countries manage to get along absolutely fine (better, in a great many cases) without. I am dreading DD starting secondary because we will be introduced to this gruesome world which luckily, at the mo, I can observe from afar and feel quite relieved we have no part of.

Thanks to those who validate my feelings. Without sounding mean, I'm not asking what we think the dress code should be really, I'm more concerned that a school with a very relaxed 6th form dress code (e.g. Tracksuit bottoms and jean are both allowed) has suddenly decided that they are not dressing appropriately. This is aimed at the girls without doubt. Shutting the girls down without a grown up discussion makes me feel uncomfortable.
We are not taking beachwear here btw (not that that should matter)
This is the feminism board, isn't it? Anyway? DD having discussed with her friends doesn't want to follow it up at the moment. They are considering dressing as handmaids for the sixth form panto this Christmas though

But you still haven't given enough info. In your OP you say 'girls mostly I'd imagine'. So you don't know. And I've asked at least once, are boys allowed to wear low down baggy trousers with their pants on display? Are the girls showing their underwear? You haven't said.

I'm more than happy to be all guns blazing if it's clear that the girls are being unfairly targeted, and I am fully aware that that could easily be the case. But at the mo I don't know that.

(As an aside, I don't feel that wearing the skimpiest clothing you possibly can has anything much to do with feminism. Sure, your choice, but how anyone thinks that's got anything to do with equality and liberation from the patriarchy I can't think.)

Hauling everyone in for a rollicking but with no specifics to follow is ridiculous. Is this sixth form part of a school? Are they supposed to be role models to the younger pupils, is that what the DH is driving at?

Dd went to a sixth form college not attached to a school partly to get away from all the endless focus on clothing rules. She now experiments with her hair and clothes and no-one says anything. I do think that at 17+ if you can't do it then, when can you?

I'm really puzzled at what is puzzling the OP. I would expect it to mean the type of clothing which would not raise an eye brow in say something like a travel agents or mobile phone shop. Not as formal as e.g. bank , estate agent , solicitors but nothing to merit a second glance.

The OP is assuming it is targeted at girls but I'd bet that low slung pants on display trousers or Eminem style vests on boys would be caught too.

We had to wear business attire in sixth form, had to be a matching skirt or trouser suit in gray, navy or black. No t-shirts or anything strappy, no dresses, skirts no more than 3 inches above the knee, no logos or slogans, no heels above 2 inches, no kitten or stiletto heels, nothing tight, no canvas shoes no ballet pumps or shoes with no arch support... The list went on. These were also (minus the suit bit) the rules for school trips when you wore normal clothes. It was pointless and expensive as I will never wear my suits again and had to have them all tailored to fit as funnily enough most 'business' clothing is designed for women, not teenage girls. However, previously my sixth form had been 'smart casual' and that ended up with people in ripped low rise jeans with a thong poking out the top, so I understand why they changed it but I don't think they needed to go as far as they did. It is ridiculous in this heat.

I have DCs at different sixth forms. One has a 'business wear' uniform, the other says wear what you like.

The business wear place is always sending home letters:
Boys trousers' too tight
Girls' skirts too short
Shirts are the 'wrong' colour (even though a colour is not actually specified)
Blouses cut too low
Girls' shoes too high
Platforms not allowed
Boys shoes too pointy
Colored laces not allowed etc.

In the wear what you like place they all wear jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, trainers. No complaints from school ever!

It's interesting isn't it MollyHuaCha? Kids on the continent don't seem to have a problem with the lack of uniform. In fact, when my sons were going on cultural exchange trips, they were told to dress quite plainly otherwise they would look daft compared to the rest of the kids.

They were all dying to wear their best designer gear, but the teachers told them they would stand out like a sore thumb.

When we had students stay with us, they were all dressed in jeans, T-shirts, hoodies. They all managed to look cool and trendy. But mostly, it just wasn't an issue.

I also don't get this obsession with business dress. We didn't have sixth form colleges but in our last year at high school one of our privileges was we could wear casual clothes - most wore jeans. I can't remember anyone dressing inappropriately except for two girls wearing high heeled shoes each day.

I don't think the no short skirts or strappy tops is necessarily sexist - it's just mainly girls who want to wear these. I'm sure if the boys started turning up in shorts so short you could see their underwear, or in strappy tops then they too would be asked to dress more appropriately.

Teenagers sometimes lack judgement so a more specific dress code is needed.

I don't necessarily agree. My school performs very well and hasn't got a specific dress code in the 6th form. It doesn't do any pupils any harm in the future. Most secure good work experience/placements etc and go on to successful careers after university. Also, the school which is constantly the highest performing in the country has no uniform or dress code at any year group. At the same time, I don't think a fair dress code is necessarily a bad thing.

I don't think the attire you mentioned of the person you worked with yesterday should put adult staff in a difficult position. It was extremely hot and it's up to adults not to judge or view her in a certain way due to her clothing.

When I was at sixth form in the 90s the main rule was that your top and bottom must meet when you are standing (to avoid crop tops a la Brittany!). Dress codes MUST be specific or they are useless.

I certainly don't think teenagers never show poor judgement, I expect my parents would say I do sometimes. I just said dress codes aren't always necessary as my school, other comparable schools I know and schools other posters have mentioned as well as schools in Europe show.