Nazir Afzal - quote re young women, terrorism attacks.

[Squirmy65ghyg]

"They should be talking to young people, young women invariably, in order to get them to understand and learn from them what it is that needs to be done, rather than simply impose."

I fundamentally disagree but is he right? Says UK authorities need to do the above to prevent further terror attacks.

It is men who carry out these atrocities in the whole.

BBC has the full quote.

Well if that were true, couldn't 'they' could just post what they wanted to say online?

No he is not right. It is breathtakingly arrogant and insolent to try to place the blame and responsibility for these attacks anywhere other than on the terrorists.

Have you got a link, I can't find it, sorry.

I've been avoiding the news....don't want young kids seeing it. Why are young women the key to fixing this??

I haven't seen the quote in context. Is he talking about the place of women in the family and the influence they have?
Haven't a few initiatives concentrated on the women because they are inevitably the primary caregivers in Muslim families?
Is it monumentally sexist or is it pragmatic?
I am not saying either, I am asking.

Or perhaps due to the increase in young women being groomed online by terrorists?

It was on the BBC live feed this afternoon, so you should see it if you scroll down.

I'll see if I can find more on it.

It just seems yet ANOTHER blame to lay at the door of women.

There's a thread in AIBU "Anyone listening to Radio 5 live..."

Nazir Afzal is the prosecutor who brought the Rochdale grooming gang case to court. I'm going to read more into this because he doesn't seem like a kneejerk sexist to me.

He was talking about the role of women in community liaison and how they are often not listened to by panels of old white men. And that they should be listened to.

It just seems yet ANOTHER blame to lay at the door of women.

I didn't interpret that meaning at all. If anything, I interpreted quite the opposite.

He said something very similar on QT after the manchester attack if I remember rightly. It didn't come across to me that he was placing blame or responsibility on Muslim women, more that he thought they might have insights and ideas about how we tackle the problem which are not currently being heard.

More listening to women would be good.

Women have been the primary caregivers for pretty much forever and haven't managed to destroy patriarchy, so clearly, being a primary caregiver is not a very powerful position.

But yes, women have insights that men should listen to more.

More listening to communities is good.

Whether we can make Prevent work (chequered history) could be a key issue. And listening to the women in the communities - who are so often unheard - doesn't strike me as such a bad thing

Is it not drawing attention to one of the problems with previous attempts to "engage with communities"/ "listen to communities"?: that almost invariably the people they chose to talk to/that they assumed represented "the community" were older men (maybe because these were the ones who put themselves forward at the time, maybe because the people doing the engaging were older men themselves.) The impact of this being that women within minority communities end up doubly marginalized.

What Saucery said.
He is saying they need to listen to young women about what is going on in these communities because they're the ones at the sharp end. If you want to bomb a concert to stop girls going out and having fun you will likely have already been attacking the girls in your own family and social circle. If you have the capacity for mass violence you will generally have started with domestic violence.

"Mr Afzal [...] told the BBC he had spent 25 years meeting "so-called community leaders who represent no one but themselves".

The majority of British Muslims were female, under 25 and from low income backgrounds, Mr Afzal said, yet most community leaders were middle-class men aged over 50."

It seems to me he is saying that women's voices are not being heard or even sought despite the fact they are the majority.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15327396.Government__must_do_more_to_reach_young_Muslim_women_to_tackle_extremism_/

Yes, that's how it came across to me on BBC North West yesterday, Miffer.

"It seems to me he is saying that women's voices are not being heard or even sought despite the fact they are the majority. "

^This. Odd that people don't support the hearing of young female voices, Muslim or not.

Our approach has to change.

Thanks both, I know you mentioned the point earlier I only meant the quote to support it. I went looking for it after reading your posts.

Interesting that I have just read one of the London attackers was reported to the police by a woman who was worried he was trying to radicalise her children.

Odd that he is being accused of laying the blame for terrorism with young women when he was asserting that young womens voices need to be heard above middle class middle aged men.
The notion of a 'community leader' has always been a curious one and he is right to deconstruct it.

Apologies for the Fail link

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4575452/Prosecutor-NAZIR-AFZAL-UK-deals-extremism.html#ixzz4jCVznSWm

I can remember feminists complaining about the 'community leader' thing right back in the 80s - unbelievable that it's still happening.
Maybe now a man is pointing it out someone will take notice

Well if he shows and feminist credentials he'll be roundly ignored?

Yes it was only feminists who condemn 'community leader' thing isn't it?......

There is that, Countess, but you take your support where you can get it, I suppose. And a high profile legal bod, even a male one is a good ally to get things moving in the right direction.