"Stealthing" Men removing condoms without consent.

[HelenaDove]

By Sali Hughes for The Pool.

www.the-pool.com/news-views/opinion/2017/19/sali-hughes-on-stealthing-and-the-rise-of-online-forums

Dixie, as I said all my partners were long term and serious. I didn't even sleep with them without that being the case so STD risk was lower, especially since we both got tested. Regarding pregnancy, I also knew my cycles inside out and knew well when was safe and when was not. That's why I'd be annoyed (if it happened) and say that I needed to know so I could judge the risk. He wouldn't be aware of my cycle.

Additionally prechildren I stupidly thought it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get pregnant, very naive!

Additionally prechildren I stupidly thought it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get pregnant

I think this is key.

I didn't (and don't) want to get pregnant, so no matter how well I thought I knew my cycle, I still wouldn't bloody well risk it.

Yeah, post children Dixie I'm exactly the same😂

Bloody Loose Women and especially Nolan. Playing the "cool girls"

This tells you all you need to know.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-350846/Shane-disgusted-ex-wifes-sex-promise-son.html

Yes cool girls is exactly the right way to describe them. It's a shame because they could have really raised some awareness and emphasised that stealthing isn't okay, but instead decided to go down the "what about the menz" route. I really dislike Coleen Nolan. I hope her daughter doesn't inherit the same internalised misogyny that she has.

Wow. She's got an interesting take on sex and relationships, that's for sure. I find it quite repellant.

I just don't understand why if condoms were deemed essentially before starting to have sex they would suddenly become unimportant during sex... If it comes off or is uncomfortable, you stop and put a new one on. Yeah, bit of a passion killer in the middle of DTD, but not as much as an unwanted pregnancy or a dose of the clap

This happened to me with a casual partner, in spite of the fact I'd made it absolutely clear that my consent was conditional on using a condom. No condom, no consent. It's rape, pure and simple.

I contracted a STI in that encounter, which I am still dealing with the health consequences of two years later.

I didn't report it, as I didn't believe there would much in the way of a constructive outcome. However, I did read about a case of a man who was convicted of raping his wife because he deliberately ejaculated inside her after having agreed to use the withdrawal method. However, the context was a very physically abusive relationship, don't know if the conviction would have been secured otherwise.

I didn't report it, as I didn't believe there would much in the way of a constructive outcome.

Sadly, you were quite probably right about that.

I see reporting rape as working towards a goal - he'll probably not convicted now, probably not when the next woman reports his rape, but perhaps when ten women have reported him as rapist, judges will feel they finally have to do something about him.

As an individual, the psychological cost of reporting it might outweigh the benefits.

I don't know whether it is too late now, but could you perhaps accuse him of giving you an STI instead of reporting a rape? There have been cases where intentionally infecting someone with HIV was punished, so perhaps could work with other dangerous STIs. And at least you don't get stupid questions like "Are you sure you didn't want this STI?" when accusing someone of giving you one.

I see reporting rape as working towards a goal - he'll probably not convicted now, probably not when the next woman reports his rape, but perhaps when ten women have reported him as rapist, judges will feel they finally have to do something about him.

That is an excellent notion!

Like filling up a bingo card and eventually when house is called, he gets convicted.

It would encourage people to report rape, despite the fact that they feel it is pointless.

I can even see a culture shift here.

The very act of reporting becoming commonplace, being a deterrent.

I think statistically it's understood that a rapist would've raped about six times before they are eventually convicted?

girly, I'm really sorry to hear that. How awful. Hope you're doing a bit better now.

No condom, no consent. It's rape, pure and simple.

It is that simple. Which is probably why it provokes the what-aboutery for the alleged armies of women conniving helpless men into impregnating them, as if it were comparable. It is not comparable. It's a shitty awful thing to do, and I'm sure it happens, but it's not a crime. Trying to impregnate a woman against her will, and trying to get pregnant against a man's will aren't equivalent. The consequences all fall on the women. A man can walk away. A woman can't.

If it's that important to a man not to be a father then either he needs to use condoms, get a vasectomy, or just not have PIV sex. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Let's not pretend it's difficult difficult lemon difficult.

I didn't report it, as I didn't believe there would much in the way of a constructive outcome.

Sadly, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's always going to be an uphill struggle to prove guilt when it comes down to one person's word against another and the accused benefits from presumption of innocence. You can't win if you don't even try to fight though.

If (some) men are encouraging each other, using social media to make this practice socially acceptable within their peer groups then women need a coordinated fight back. Actually, strike that, not just women but every one of us who isn't a scumbag POS who thinks stealthing is remotely acceptable. Women do need to lead the charge though.

So I think women should report every instance even though the chances of a prosecution, far less a successful one, are remote. Then use the media, traditional and social, to keep the issue in the public eye. Make sure our daughters know it is a risk to be aware of and make our sons know that it is neither cool nor boast worthy, it is just sickeningly cuntish.

This is a tough thread for me, I'm a man currently raising a child from just this sort violation of consent. All I can offer is the suggestion that the cost is merely financial and that men can just walk away is utterly fallacious, at least in my case.

However that is all I will say on the matter, as ultimately irrespective of my own circumstances I am opposed to drawing direct comparisons because it's simply used to derail away from the issue under discussion. On a feminist forum especially, the central question is: is stealthing rape? I'd argue it is, it robs the victim of any opportunity to make informed consent. It is thus a violation and meets the bar for rape pure and simple.

From my addmittedly emotional standpoint on the issue I'd thank those who have tried to compare situations like mine to not obsfucate the discussion. I have a horse in this race in that I'd like to see every stealther locked up, I have some appreciation of what it's like to have been robbed of making informed consent. So please don't continue to detract from the discussion here.

girlywurly I am so sorry this has happened to you. I can see you would like to bring him to justice, is there any way you can explore how strong the case against him actually is? If he had an sti and failed to inform you that's an assault, I don't want to pry but he may struggle to prove he didn't know depending on the symptoms and how long he had it. Whatever you choose to do none of this reflects badly on you, your first loyalty is to yourself and to make sure you are ok. The blame is 100% on him.

Girly Im so sorry that happened to you

www.redonline.co.uk/health-self/relationships/reason-men-are-stealthing

From the linked article, 'I don't want to get them pregnant!' so why not wear a condom then? He takes that risk each time.

I will say that I agree that sex without a condom feels better, but DH has had the snip so he has taken responsibility for that one.

This is what Julian Assange was accused of doing as part of his rape case, wasn't it? So in Sweden at least it is viewed as rape. I fully believe it should be viewed as rape here too - if someone consents in the mistaken belief a condom will be used, their consent is no longer valid when they are deceived.

Reading things like this make me terrified to ever have sex with a man again. Germaine Greer was spot on all those years ago - woman truly have no idea how much some men hate them.

Removing the condom changes the nature of the sexual act itself, so yes, it would almost certainly be rape if the woman is deemed only to have consented to sex 'with' a condom. An actual case first needs to go before the court before the court can set the precedent.

Lying about taking the pill doesn't change the nature of the sexual act so wouldn't be an offence - a bit like a man lying about being a billionaire to impress a girl. I suspect that in principle, it might give rise to civil action/damages etc. Good luck proving it however.

I was a victim of stealthing in my teens.
Luckily I had no physical repercussions but it took me ten years of confusion to realise it was rape.

So I think women should report every instance even though the chances of a prosecution, far less a successful one, are remote. And that is a very privileged view point (and a bit victim-blamey). Women have a real chance of being prosecuted themselves. Not to mention being ostracised, threatened etc. And that chance dramatically increases for BAME women and women from deprived backgrounds.

Grazia have done a very good article on it in this weeks issue.

An old friend of mine actually boasted to me about this.
The girl he was sleeping with wasn't even his gf. She wasn't taking any birth control either. They was both very young at the time too.
It's not like men can't take there own precautions if they don't want to impregnate a women.
Not excusing women who lie about taking precautions but men can take control over contraception too.
I really don't understand why anyone would want to have unprotected sex with someone they wouldn't want to raise a child with

www.redonline.co.uk/health-self/3-women-open-up-about-their-experiences-with-stealthing