Another trans question......

[BertrandRussell]

Does anyone know who was the first person to put forward the "self identifying" idea and when?

I've answered your question.

And I'm not shouting.

Some new definition of the word "answered" I haven't previously encountered......

I remember when the Beaumont Trust was quite active- I didn't realise they were still going.

I thought your question was regarding ppl who self identity without requiring any outward physiological changes.

Rigid gender roles benefit and uphold patriarchy. So a patriarchal society will naturally embrace sex change (gender change) rather than try to dismantle sex stereotypes.

The liberal left get a new extra special oppressed group to fawn over to prove their stance on "inclusive and accepting" (at the usual expense of women of course)

It's taken Northern America by storm partly because The American medical industry benefits hugely from being able to forcast $$$ in artificial hormones, puberty blockers, potential surgery, hair removal / hair implants etc and a lifetime of medical intervention from one patient.

It also appeals hugely to the narcissistic youth who gets to experience lots of special attention, praise about how "brave" they are and also get to verbally abuse people who think it's not quite right. In the past they'd have just got a tattoo or whatever.

It's no coincidence that in America and the UK youth levels of psychosis are on the rise at the same time as neoliberalism rising, huge gaps in wealth and equality on the rise, and narcissism is on the rise, transgenderism is also on the rise.
Being trans is one way for u underlying mental health problems to present.

patodp

It's taken Northern America by storm partly because The American medical industry benefits hugely from being able to forcast $$$ in artificial hormones, puberty blockers, potential surgery, hair removal / hair implants etc and a lifetime of medical intervention from one patient

That's what I said earlier but I thought I was just being cynical. Your expansion of this explanation makes much sense to me.

The liberal left get a new extra special oppressed group to fawn over to prove their stance on "inclusive and accepting" (at the usual expense of women of course)

As do the liberal right because it sanctifies the existence of two genders: one to dominate and the other to serve.

I just feel uneasy when someone puts parenthesis at the end of a sentence. Is it just me?

Elendon
A lack of confidence in my own statement lead to the added ( )s. I do it a lot but when I read other ppl doing I do think they should have omitted the brackets!

But yeah of course, the liberal right do it too, Maria Miller for heaven's sake! But the right is not so synonymous with Liberal, and are far less likely to pander to self identity BS.

But Right vs Left is a false dichotomy anyway seeing as they both vehemently uphold Patriarchy.

Sorry I meant Ellipses and not Parenthesis.

BMacklin

The whole thing looked a little scary to me. I came cross them on Wikipedia as been instrumental in the gender recognition act 2004.

How you can, in one breath, acknowledge people with a fetish as being transgender, and in another breath advocate for them using the bathroom of their acquired gender, is beyond me. And then get to submit advice to the government!

I don't know if it's because I'm getting on, but sometimes I feel like children are running this country.

Oh, so that's aimed at BertrandR...

I remember when the Beaumont Trust was quite active- I didn't realise they were still going.

Do you know what kind of reputation they had, Bertrand?

I'm not sure what I'm basing this on, but I get a sinister feel from their website. A members' only login, photographs of the team - all older transwomen. The way their manifesto is written.

I dunno. It's just a weird vibe.

Actually, the question of cui bono in relation to self-identification and the type of "widening the bandwidth of being a woman" gubbins peddalled by Danielle Moscato and Alex Drummond is particularly interesting. People who seek medical assistance to transition - everything from pyschotherapy to hormones to laser treatment to surgery - are clearly lining the pockets of the medical industry, which of course is Big Business in the US. Even buying unprescribed hormones off the internet to self-administer is supporting pharma. Manufacturer of larger women's clothes and shoes must also be seeing an upsurge in demand? And probably make-up - gotta have that eyeliner to be a woman, as we have been told many times.

But if an individual does nothing to change their outward appearance, they are not putting anything into these industries. Outside of thesaurus publishers, social media sites and clickbait website, I'm not sure who - commercially - does benefit?

Another thing that concerns me is that it would play very much to the religious right to say that men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women are actually gender dysphoric rather than gay. The logical consequence of this is gender reassignment that "fixes" the problem. Hey Presto-no more gay people...

Yes Datun they say they use the word Transgender and specifically THAT word but then acknowledge the government use it as an umbrella term to include transexual too and are ok with that. Doesn't make sense. Mt point being there seems to be little consistency in language. But it makes a huge difference to women.

So cut bono so far........

Big Pharma
The medical industry (including counseling services)
The religious right.

Now there's an unholy alliance.

Can I tentatively suggest the whole of patriarchal society? While feminists are being pilloried by TRA and tying ourselves up in knots about this issue we're taking our eyes off the ball in other areas

Yes I agree Bertrand. Much more comfortable all round if feminist factions are castigated each other rather than patriarchy.
I have noticed markedly less trolling of FWR when most threads are trans related, it clearly doesn't require shutting down in the same way as e.g. threads about the pay gap.

Back in the day when there were transsexuals and transvestites, Beaumont was the society for transvestites.

Bloody hell pencils

So a bunch of fetishists are advising government on their gender recognition policy?

I tell you, the more I read the more I am convinced that it is the fetish aspect of trans that is fully behind the drive. And they massively outnumber your genuine transsexual.

pencils that would make sense to what they say on the website. Scarier than I thought. HOW does no one in government question this? Like I said the other day there must be men like this in high places allowing this.