Young women and "new" feminism - "she's such a great business woman".

[peripericardium]

I am lucky enough to study alongside a lot of very bright students, and I am one of the oldest on my course.

Kim Kardashian came up today. One of the women insisted that she was worthy of respect because she "changed the face of reality TV". I asked what the merit of making a sex tape and posting photos of yourself in your pants is, exactly, and she said I should build up other women instead of tearing them down.

I said that I disagree with this modern idea that to be a feminist you have to support everything that other women do, without any room for criticism. I was told that I sounded like an old lady

Is this the face of modern feminism?

Do any of you subscribe to the "she's done really well for herself" view of Jordan, the Kardashians and other people who've made a career out of their tits or arses?

I was told that I sounded like an old lady grin

Nice to see agism alive and kicking though.

You have my sympathy, OP. I do not venerate other women just because they have made $$$. I place a value judgement on the quality of their product or service before deciding whether they are worthy of admiration.

I was told once that "i have done well for myself". It was NOT a compliment.

YANBU!

I have been previously scolded for unsisterly behaviour for not thinking that Katie Price is a role model.

I don't particularly admire attention seekers with plastic surgery addictions whether they've made any money out of it or not. I can't imagine what feminist values they might hold? I don't think you can make a career the way they have done and simultaneously have any real interest in equality or liberation for women, because if that actually existed, and the bottom fell out of the objectification market, they'd be out of a job

Do any of you subscribe to the "she's done really well for herself" view of Jordan, the Kardashians and other people who've made a career out of their tits or arses?

I think you are mixing up 2 things. There is no merit in what they have done but they personally are very successful and wealthy.

You could for example compare them with say J.K Rowling who has merit and immense success and wealth and say a musician like Isobel Campbell who I think has considerable merit but limited financial success.

Well done for not openly bursting out laughing. I hope you called her out on her ageist comment which is pulling down older women.

That's an interesting argument, thanks Lass. I hadn't thought of it like that.

I think part of the issue is society's current obsession with 'celebrity' and money. It seems to be accepted that achieving celebrity status and making money are both things to be treated as worthwhile achievements regardless of how/why they are obtained.

I personally don't judge the Katy Prices of this world as much as I do the men who want to stare at pictures of them, but I would not want them to be held up as a role model to my daughter.

I was told that I sounded like an old lady

I think nowadays I'd be inclined to take that as a great compliment.

Those young "feminists" see femaleness as a kind of disability, and patriarchal oppression as the some thing that just happens, like a force of nature.

Thus, a woman who manages to be successful in spite of her big flaw (being female) is admirable and inspiring to them. Like a man with leg protheses running a marathon.

That's what a feminist is to them; a woman who manages to be awesome in spite of being born with the birth defect of lacking a penis.

I have nothing against women who make money with their tits and arse, I might even consider them feminists if they invested said money into the abolition of patriarchy, but financial success does not make a feminist.

👏👏 vestal

Yy, Vestal

That's what a feminist is to them; a woman who manages to be awesome in spite of being born with the birth defect of lacking a penis.
Nailed it vestal
It's depressing really. Even more depressing you got called an old woman OP. I despair at the moment, with what a number has been done on feminism.
As you can probably tell, I don't think KK or KPMG are feminist role models. They've done well for themselves by exploiting patriarchal values but not done anything to improve the situation of women as a whole.
Compared to someone like Beyonce or Emma Watson, no contest really

That's what a feminist is to them; a woman who manages to be awesome in spite of being born with the birth defect of lacking a penis

For me the surprising thing is that despite having no discernable talent whatsoever (and I would in this context include just being beautiful or pleasant as a talent) they have been so successful. For example you are probably all far too high brow to watch Googlebox but I don't begrudge Scarlet Moffat her spin- off career (albeit it's not remotely in the Kardashian league) based on nothing really beyond being pleasant and engaging.

Although I don't particularly see why a successful woman, as well as being successful has also to be judged on whether she is a feminist role model or whether she has improved the situation of women as a whole.

Although I don't particularly see why a successful woman, as well as being successful has also to be judged on whether she is a feminist role model or whether she has improved the situation of women as a whole.

I didn't think that was the OP's point, more wondering why she was being deemed unfeminist for being unimpressed by KK - 'disagree with this modern idea that to be a feminist you have to support everything that other women do'.

I saw this today in the daily record website - benefit claiming mum turns life around

By getting a boob job and becoming a stripper 😕

I didn't think that was the OP's point, more wondering why she was being deemed unfeminist

I was responding to Quentin's post about role models.

When ppl talk about feminist game changers it usually does mean money or career.

But being a "game changer" should not only mean money and career.

The first few women who came forward with the truth about Jimmy Savile are game changers IMO but i never see that mentioned anywhere.

It always seems to be about career or salary or some financial achievement when women and achievement is discussed.

Worshipping freaks (such as the Kardashians) does not a feminist make...