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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ladies in knickers

79 replies

Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 12:55

I am curious as to wether anyone feels ' empowered' by the pictures in the papers and on media of famous and random women in their knickers, standing with other women in their knickers showing off their ' real' bodies.
I just don't get it, looking at other peoples imperfections doesn't make me dislike my own,stretch marks, big tummy etc any less.
Does it really make any difference to anyone's self body image? does anyone feel empowered by this? Seriously?
Or is it just pictures of ladies in their knickers?

OP posts:
walde · 03/05/2017 13:07

It's bizarre isn't it. It's like they've latched onto the idea that images objectifying beautiful women is a Bad Thing, so we need to replace it with images objectifying ordinary women. This spectacularly misses the point that what is damaging is images that objectify women in general and what we need a full paradigm shift in how women see themselves and each other.

NavyandWhite · 03/05/2017 13:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 13:19

Today someone showed me a women in the bath breastfeeding her baby and ' showing off her stretch marks to, ' empower other women and show that breastfeeding is natural', I mean WTF. Is she crazy? Why would you do that?

OP posts:
SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 03/05/2017 13:20

No, I don't find it empowering, I struggle to understand why it would be. It's just people in their knickers. I suppose it might be different if they were doing something inspirational like saving kittens from house fires in their knickers, or inventing a perpetual motion machine in their knickers.

QueenLaBeefah · 03/05/2017 13:22

I don't find it empowering. Just attention seeking.

BuzzKillington · 03/05/2017 13:24

I don't find it empowering either. I think it's just a publicity stunt for Loose Women.

Now we have Michelle Heaton on. She is empowering us by showing us her rock hard mahogany gym body in high heels and a tonne of slap, whilst 'bravely' pointing out her minuscule surgery scars.

ParadiseCity · 03/05/2017 13:25

Exactly what walde said. 'Don't worry ladies you are still good enough for me to look at'. Actually I couldn't give a shiny shit whether you enjoy looking at me, I'm not here for your enjoyment or approval.

Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 13:25

Lol Saskia,
What troubles me is the that these women genuinely believe they are making a difference, ' I will change your perceptions by showing you my cellulite' , what a total crock of shit

OP posts:
TheSparrowhawk · 03/05/2017 13:33

It is entirely missing the point, I agree. I get where they're coming from - the idea is that they want all women to 'feel attractive' etc. And in principle that's not a bad thing. But the premise of the whole thing is that women need to and should feel attractive - that men's approval of their physical appearance is really important and without it they feel shit.

What they don't seem to get is the idea that actually women have better things to do with their lives than to wonder how many men thought about shagging them that day and that if we freed women from the burden of 'being attractive' entirely then the world would be a far better place.

SomeDyke · 03/05/2017 13:35

I don't find it empowering, but then I was never really a fan of the empowerment as the route to liberation movement in the first place.

I find it very depressing that we are still having to have this conversation. That images of (pretty) women in their knickers are okay (and pretty good for selling stuff), or that even images of pretty women in their knickers quite often still need airbrushing and stretching and manipulating to make them look good enough to sell stuff. Or that all images of people in underwear need to be banned............

The original post says it all really:
"looking at other peoples imperfections doesn't make me dislike my own,stretch marks, big tummy etc any less."
Being an ordinary woman with ordinary looking bits and bobs that show your history in that body (like stretch marks) aren't imperfections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That so many of us still feel they are and can't face looking at others bodies or our own, that is still a problem for many women.

We need to keep having this conversation as long as it is still an issue when such pictures appear. When the conversation is instead 'Where did she get those knickers? I quite like them!' or 'What is this picture about'? then we can stop having this conversation.......................

HmmOkay · 03/05/2017 13:36

Can anyone imagine a group of men in the media doing it?

I am trying to imagine a group shot of Jeremy Clarkson, Tony Robinson, Eamonn Holmes and Jeremy Paxman, all in their underwear.

With a caption about how empowering it is for other men to be able to see that.

Just can't quite picture it.

eddiemairswife · 03/05/2017 13:37

To be honest I'm sick of seeing pictures of women in knickers and bikinis....showing off beach bodies, cellulite, stretch marks, baby 'bumps' etc. Who is it for?

ChocChocPorridge · 03/05/2017 13:40

The only thing I thought when I saw the loose women photo was "I didn't realise Janet Street-Porter was so tall"

And she is. 6'

Otherwise, I don't see why being in knickers is any better than in normal clothes.

floatingawayfinally · 03/05/2017 13:42

I understand the reasoning behind it. There is so much pressure on women to look perfect we are constantly exposed to advertising about how to make ourselves more attractive. The standard of beauty the media portrays is often unattainable and is many cases thanks to photoshop not even real. In that scenario it does make a difference to remind wider society what women actually look like without surgery, cosmetics, photoshop and filters. I haven't seen the adverts you are writing about but I can definitely see how a celebrity female showing her acceptance of her own imperfections can help to combat the pressure on young females in particular to be perfect.

I'm middle aged and even I feel like the odd one out when I drop or pick up my kids because I've walked out the house with a bare face and all my blemishes on show compared to some mums who even at 8.30am still manage to look flawless. I have contemplated putting on make up when I leave the house but I'm too lazy and unskilled at that so instead just try to take better care of my skin but still it's that pressure to look attractive at all times.

OlennasWimple · 03/05/2017 15:11

Agree that it's not empowering, just a diluted version of the stuff that created the problem in the first place

See also "tasteful nude shoots" and pole dancing lessons

ScarlettFreestone · 03/05/2017 15:16

Men have body issues too, but as Hmm says you would never see posters of groups of "ordinary" men in their underwear being marketed as "empowering".

If we want to empower women we should just stop focusing on their bodies as an acceptable route to equality and liberation.

Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 15:35

Thanks for your replies. The thing that I have an issue with is that it still boils down to us taking our clothes off to ' be empowered'.
It has suddenly become acceptable for women to post a photo of themselves naked or semi naked and expect to be applauded for it like they have brokered a Middle East peace treaty. It is demeaning.
They are objectifying themselves, and tbh people like Janet Street Porter ( who I have always thought was her own woman) should pop her clothes on and be ranting about this not agreeing to join in.
In fact how much more powerful would that photo have been if she had been the only one with clothes on?

OP posts:
DubiousCredentials · 03/05/2017 15:47

I was very surprised that J S-P took part actually.

debska · 03/05/2017 15:52

I thought exactly the same thing but was worried that I was being a misery guts
I don't thinks it empowering Standing in your pants makes you look vulnerable. I think most adult women know about airbrushing and Spanx and don't need to see celebs in their undies to feel better about themselves.

Batghee · 03/05/2017 15:58

in some contexts it can be. When i was very depressed after giving birth it did help me a lot to see the bodies of other women who had given birth. It helped me have more realistic expectations of what my body could now look like.
I do think nudity is empowering in some contexts. Perhaps not so much to sell products tho... i dont think selling things or advertising things really empowers the female body much.

Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 15:58

Me too dubious.
'JANET STREET-PORTER
'It’s really important to do this campaign because I want women all over Britain to learn to love their body. Our bodies are brilliant – it’s your weapon!'

Great sentiments , but there is no connection between her appearing in a photo in her knickers and me loving my body ( which I do for the record).
And as for it being our ' weapon', they will be talking about our feminine wiles next.

OP posts:
DubiousCredentials · 03/05/2017 15:59

Maybe she participated ironically Grin

Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 16:01

I wish Dubious, I always rather liked her

OP posts:
Original poster
Cameron2012 · 03/05/2017 16:03

Anyhow, I'm sure that at the next Loose Women meeting with the TV executives all of the presenters will turn up in just their underwear as it is so empowering

OP posts:
Datun · 03/05/2017 16:04

I totally agree with the underlying premise that women in their underwear should not be used to sell any damn thing.

But I'm wondering if it might be good for younger people who feel beauty standards are unattainable. Because everyone except them is gorgeous.

I realise it is not tackling the problem in the slightest. But unattainable beauty standards are worse than a realistic standard?