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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rebecca Tuvel article on transracialism

20 replies

theresamustgo · 03/05/2017 10:34

Lordy - has anyone seen the shitstrom around Tuvel's article in the feminist journal Hypathia on transracialism (Rachel Dolezal) discussed in relation to the logic of 'transgenderism'. It is ugly.

there is a summary here
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html?mid=fb-share-di

OP posts:
Datun · 03/05/2017 11:02

She has issued an update. I'll cut and paste it below. She is in favour of transgenderism.

But the smallest hint of questioning, not disagreeing, not undermining, merely questioning brings all the knives out.

On the one hand it is very worrying that apologies have been issued, on the other hand, it highlights the huge aggression involved in trying to shut down discussion. People can pontificate endlessly about the philosophical aspects of transgenderism but then the reality hits that it has been taken over by an army of very frightening men.

Update below:

"I wrote this piece from a place of support for those with non-normative identities, and frustration about the ways individuals who inhabit them are so often excoriated, body-shamed, and silenced. When the case of Rachel Dolezal surfaced, I perceived a transphobic logic that lay at the heart of the constant attacks against her. My article is an effort to extend our thinking alongside transgender theories to other non-normative possibilities.

The vehement criticism has already raised a number of concerns. I regret the deadnaming of Caitlyn Jenner in the article, which means that I referred to her birth name instead of her chosen name. Even though she does this herself in her book, I understand that it is not for outsiders to do and that such a practice can perpetuate harm against transgender individuals, and I apologize. The deadnaming will be removed from the article. I also understand that some people are offended by my use of the term transgenderism. My motivation for using it came from a blogpost by Julia Serano, as I find her defense of the term persuasive. A valid reproach is that my article discusses the lives of vulnerable people without sufficiently citing their own first-person experiences and views.

But so much wrath on electronic media has been expressed in the form of ad hominem attacks. I have received hate mail. I have been denounced a horrible person by people who have never met me. I have been warned that this is a project I should not have started and can only have questionable motivations for writing. Many people are now strongly urging me and the journal to retract the article and issue an apology. They have cautioned me that not doing so would be devastating for me personally, professionally, and morally. From the few who have expressed their support, much has been said to me about bullying culture, call-out culture, virtue-signaling, a mob mentality, and academic freedom.

So little of what has been said, however, is based upon people actually reading what I wrote. There are theoretical and philosophical questions that I raise that merit our reflection. Not doing so can only reinforce gender and racial essentialism. I deeply worry about the claim that the project itself is harmful to trans people and people of color. These are, of course, wide and varied groups, some of whom experience offense and harm at the idea of transracialism, and others who do not. People of color and trans individuals are not of one mind about this topic, of course, and online publications attest to this. For instance, Kai M. Green has defended the importance of grappling with the question of transracialism. Adolph Reed Jr., Camille Gear Rich, Melissa Harris Perry, Allyson Hobbs, Angela Jones, Ann Morton, BP Morton, among others, have also expressed more sympathetic positions on the topic. The philosophical stakes of this discussion merit our consideration.

Calls for intellectual engagement are also being shut down because they “dignify” the article. If this is considered beyond the pale as a response to a controversial piece of writing, then critical thought is in danger. I have never been under the illusion that this article is immune from critique. But the last place one expects to find such calls for censorship rather than discussion is amongst philosophers."

Gingernaut · 03/05/2017 11:05

What the fuck is "deadnaming"?

Datun · 03/05/2017 11:07

Gingernaut

Calling a transperson by their previous name. For examples calling Caitlin, Bruce.

It's all on a par with the deliberate white washing.

Gingernaut · 03/05/2017 11:13

Oh.

Here's me thinking it was on a par with "Muhammed Ali formerly known as Cassius Clay".

Shutting down debate with hysteria is really not helping the world accept trans people as part of normal society.

Caitlyn was Bruce. He is now she.

One cannot deny history, especially when one has children one has fathered with one of the Kardashians..Hmm

DJBaggySmalls · 03/05/2017 11:15

The behaviour of Trans activists is indistinguishable from the behaviours of abusive men.

If you alter your behaviour because you are frightened of how your partner will react, you are being abused.
www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-women/recognising-abuse/

Datun · 03/05/2017 11:24

Gingernaut

This is the problem with all the 'micro aggressions'. The fundamental bone of contention is women do not accept that transwomen can change sex.

I don't accept that legally, culturally, officially or politically a change of sex should be ratified. Socially, maybe.

TRAs know that they can blackmail you into using language that obscures this. Constantly referring to someone as she and female subtly alters the way you mentally process that person.

I used to do it as I considered it an act of politeness. But I've realised it's nothing more than a tactic and a massive derailing strategy. (As evidenced by the article above, not addressing any actual points, just banging on about deadnaming).

Gingernaut · 03/05/2017 11:34

Thanks.

All this newly invented vocabulary is confusing. Confused

Datun · 03/05/2017 13:08

Gingernaut

Well don't fall asleep, cos it'll all change tomorrow.

Gingernaut · 03/05/2017 14:08

Thanks. Grin

GuardianLions · 03/05/2017 18:32

I started to read that article then soon felt annoyed about about wasting my time and annoyed about the woman wasting her time writing the article. It pisses me off how these ridiculous TRAs can cause so much hassle for other people with so little effort of their own. Big sweeping statements made by ill-informed fantasists and maniacs mean that people who could be applying their intelligence to better things have to meticulously unpick this flappy-mouthed gassing, in order to refute it point by point. So irritating!

user1487175389 · 03/05/2017 18:38

Wow. How this woman gained even an undergraduate degree in Philosophy is a complete mystery to me.

SomeDyke · 03/05/2017 19:11

Golly, the academics and the left are desperate to find some way of wriggling around these arguments, even at the prospect of accepting the transracial argument..................

Her attempted defense is so desperate, fawning, and trying so hard to stop her entire career doing down the pan. She tried so hard to discuss it whilst staying within the rules, but she couldn't. Which is what the TRAs want, keep shifting the goalposts, changing the terminology, and just stop anyone at all questioning the orthodoxy. Which is just so foreign to the whole academic process.

The ridiculous retraction and apology from the journal editors is scary too, the whole point is that it passed the usual peer-review academic process. If they are now saying that they and/or their reviewers are no longer qualified to judge in such cases (i.e. questioning their and their own colleagues academic judgement in this special case), then the TRAs have won, and no one will go near this topic with a bargepole, whether it is academic feminist philsosophy, or perhaps, even in medical or psychiatric journals, where the question is how to treat patients with gender dysphoria or patientrs requesting surgery and/or hormones. Because if even the philosophers are too scared to openly discuss the issues, then what's the hope when it comes to medical ethics, or even any research that seeks to look at the outcomes of transition or not transition. If you can't even think and debate the issues without being hounded, what is the likelihood of actually doing any real physical research?

Doing violence by thinking, doing violence by speaking? We should just be silent about certain things until someone tells us we have had the correct thoughts and are now allowed to speak...............This is very worrying and a very worrying responses from a bunch of academics who are supposed to know better. What happened to I disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it, and I will engage in rational argument with you to try and gain a deeper understanding of the issues for us both?????

theresamustgo · 03/05/2017 22:24

I listened to some novara radio show on killjoy radio with Jay Bernard about trans radicalism and they said much the same thing,
But no shitstorm on that though. I don't get it. Maybe a US thing. Anyhow I hate academic philosophy so am crying no tears for Tuvel, but the fallout is despicable.

OP posts:
Godstopper · 04/05/2017 10:49

Academic philosopher here appalled by the journal's apology. This response to an article that is deemed ill-argued is NOT standard in our discipline. The normal response is to reply, explaining its issues. It is not a demand for censorship.

The petition for the article's retraction is not representative of what many of us think. On that I am relieved.

A dislike of academic philosophy and empathy for Tuvel are two wildly different things. Don't quite know what to say about that.

theresamustgo · 04/05/2017 11:33

'A dislike of academic philosophy and empathy for Tuvel are two wildly different things. Don't quite know what to say about that.'

Sounds like the sort of thing an academic philosopher would say! bu which I mean the kind of logic stuf, if a = a then blah blah... - me, I am more of a critical theorist.......what I meant was I think Tuvel's mode of arguing is uninteresting and even positively obnoxious - but the assault on her position is ridiculous, unintellectual and scary.

OP posts:
Godstopper · 04/05/2017 13:10

But anyone who constructs an argument is, in essence, doing philosophy: we just happen to formalise it. It would be helpful if you clarified precisely why her mode of arguing is not illuminative and does not advance debate concerning this topic - that she's employing philosophical methods is a bit of a woolly answer at present.

SomeDyke - There are quite a few of us concerned about this in the philosophical community. This is just not how philosophy is done. A lot of the outrage is because it is supposed to be blindingly obvious why Tuvel's article is wrong. But it is not obvious. It would be much more helpful for people like me who do not specialise in this area, if those who oppose the article could engage in constructive debate rather than attempt to silence it.

MariafromMalmo · 04/05/2017 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain · 04/05/2017 17:23

I would like the hysterical critics of this article to give actual examples of the harm it has caused. Saying something someone else disagrees with is not harming them, although taking away their right to reply could be.

Usermuser · 04/05/2017 17:29

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeOy6l8MH8

This is trans woman Zinnia Jones' take on the transracial/transgender issue. I think they think they're being very clever but actually the argument doesn't hold up at all. It reeks of climbing up the rope ladder and then desperately hauling it up behind you.

I vaguely remember reading something about Dolezal and I think when she was asked if race could be as fluid as gender/sex, she said it was more so because race was always about social constructs. I thought that was a very interesting point. There are of course massive biological differences between sexes before we get to the socialization. Less so with race, as far as I know. Of course that probably just means she's reinforcing those constructs even more by claiming to be black, so not a good thing by any stretch.

TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain · 04/05/2017 22:02

There can be fluidity with race. It's possible (and common) to have different ethnicities within your heritage. This might affect your opinions on certain issues, how you're seen by others and also, your appearance.

A bad example here, but I have a friend who is mixed race, with one black and one white parent. He jokes about his "white side" coming out all the time.

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