Some disjointed thoughts and questions about surrogacy and feminism

[ZogZogZog]

I have some very good friends who have just got married and they are looking into surrogacy in order to start their family. They are both men.

When we were discussing it recently I realised that I feel really uncomfortable with it, and I'd like to examine why.

I'm pretty certain that it isn't homophobia - I have no sense of discomfort or unease with gay couples being parents, although I'm very happy to be challenged and really analyse my views here, in case I do have any latent homophobia.

My instinct tells me that it is related to a feeling that I have that biology is increasingly being disregarded. I've been reading the trans threads with interest and somehow my feelings of discomfort about gay men using surrogates feels linked but in ways I'm not completely able to articulate. I think I'm concerned that although of course gay men suffer from homophobic attacks and prejudice, my friends are overall very privileged - highly educated, rich, white, and of course, male. The fact that they are willing and able to pay for a commercial surrogate abroad makes me consider the links to prostitution too - men paying for the use of underprivileged female bodies.

I'm sorry that this this is such a disjointed stream of consciousness. I'm quite new to feminism and I'm trying to really think about things in light of the reading I've done so far. I'd be very interested to read other people's perspectives on this - and I hope it will help me to develop my own views as well.

There are a number of important issues around exploitation that are important but "They are both men, and they need to come to term with the facts that men cannot give birth" whilst true can also be applied to women who have fertility issues. Yet we have IVF and egg donation to address this. Should some women not just accept their natural infertility as we expect gay men to?

Lots of white American women choose to be commercial surrogates. I wouldn't say they are coerced or exploited. I suppose it depends on how much choice the surrogate has really.

Scottishdiem, gay men are not, in general, infertile.

Men can't give birth. It has nothing to do with them being infertile.

Egg donation has its own set of moral issues, whether the egg donation is so that a woman can carry a child herself or if it is to be implanted in a surrogate mother for a gay or straight couple. But egg donation is not of the same level of invasiveness, health risks and potential exploitation as surrogacy.

I'm a surrogate.

Had my second surrogate baby yesterday via section for my (straight) friends and now just waiting for pain relief to kick in before I drift off once more.

I'm also a feminist, sometimes quite a radical one. A mother of three of my own and a solicitor on the road to partnership and a wife.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

I have loved giving my friends their children. It has thrilled me and apart from my own littles, is without doubt the best thing my family and I did - coz trust me, without the husband this wouldn't have happened.

@BigDeskBob - we would be what you might consider a well-off family and I made the choice to carry my friends' embryo to birth for them.

It's also not illegal in this country, though advertising and payment over the odds is, thereby shutting down any thoughts of a commercial surrogacy system like the US. Sorry I can't link to the posted who said that it was illegal.

But you are right, there's A LOT not right with going to what you know to be a poor country to do it.

With all the will in the world you must know that that's not completely her choice - circumstances have dictated this to be a road she's considering - probably for her own family's sake. But they're taken away often from their family for the 9months to live communally.

My circumstances are the absolute opposite and I just wanted to do a good thing for my friends who I love.

Also, is it weird I never really did like pregnancy after my first!!

It's lovely that you wanted to do that for your friends SouthPole. I can't imagine anyone saying otherwise. Very different to commercial surrogacy though I think, no one bought your body or a period of your life, you gave freely to people you love.

Quite apart from the ethical issues it also seems very unwise to choose a 'cut price' surrogate to carry your child. Maternal health has a big impact on babies and poverty has massive health impacts. I know there are agencies which essentially lock up the women in order to mitigate some of that (which is particularly unpleasant) but you can't really wipe out a life time of sub optimal nutrition and poor health care can you?

southpole didn't you read where I said "i think if it's for a sister or best friend, I can see its a lovely thing for both parties.".

Men are paid to donate sperm in the UK? Interesting. Blood and egg donors are not.

No not interedting DJ Sperm donors can get up to £35 to cover expenses- no guarantee they will get £35.

Egg donors can get up to £750.

Egg donation & egg sharing - HFEA
www.hfea.gov.uk/egg-donation-and-egg-sharing.html