How does a trans person know their new gender is the right one?

[ShotsFired]

Forgive me if this comes out a bit garbled, I am trying to understand my own thoughts as well as get others' input and opinions. I read many of the trans threads with interest but so much of it baffles me.

So the basis of Trans-ism is that the person feels they are the wrong gender? i.e. a person born with a penis feels like they should have been born with a vagina, and vice versa, right [and live the life that that brings with it]? This leads to them thinking they should be/want to be classed as a woman/man accordingly, irrespective of what genitalia they were born with.

But how do you know that (a) you feel like you should have been born with different genitals; and (b) that that other sex is what you are "missing"?

I mean, I will never know what it feels like to be a man, because I don't know/can't define what it feels like to be a woman - it just is what it is - leaving aside social constructs and issues. Sometimes I feel happy, sometimes angry, sometimes sad, sometimes confused etc etc - but I don't know if that is because of my sex or just because I am a sentient human being.

So how can you possibly know that if you were the other sex, that that would make everything right?

And how do you know, once you have made this choice, that you are feeling the same/"correctly" as your chosen gender (if in fact it is even possible that all woman or all men experience, or are aware of, their existence in the same way, which seems unlikely).

We can't measure feelings and emotions scientifically, so what if we are all just feeling the same human ways about our existence and that is just how it is? One person's tortured soul at feeling wrong is "the same" to another person's "life's fine"

I personally don't believe in gender identity, just as I don't believe in any god. And I don't see why I should be required to pretend I do just because my non-belief makes you unhappy...............

YYY.

And even gender dysphoria would not exist if we didn't have stereotypical gender roles with which to non-conform.

JaxingJump "So basically your stance whereyouleftit is that most will grow out of it?"
Not quite. I'm coming around to the idea that most aren't in it to start with, so they can't grow out of something that they're not in. They're looking for explanations (aren't we all?) and this one is being heavily promoted to them. How else to explain ten girls in one sixth form identifying as trans? Statistically unlikely. Social contagion?

The problem is how far they've got in terms of hormones and/or surgery, before they decide this is not The Answer? Far enough to have brought about permanent change?

We just can't possibly understand it unless we experience it but we can respect it. And people speculating about the root of their transgenderism or the realness of it would break me if I was transgender.

And by that token, no man can possibly understand what it is to be a woman.

People asking questions would "break" you? That's a big part of the problem. This insistence that the rest of the world play along to the delusions.

People asking questions would "break" you? That's a big part of the problem. This insistence that the rest of the world play along to the delusions.

It's abusive gaslighting and emotional blackmail.

The thing is, questioning it does break them. From discomfort, to outright rage and meltdown.

I don't care if it's deliberate or not.

There is no way I want to suddenly cede a whole raft of women's civil rights to men whose sense of self is as fragile as a puff of air.

Good Lord. How can anyone ever think that someone's brittle and risky nature should be the basis for a law change.

Resurrecting this because I didn't realise there had been follow up responses since last time I looked.

@WhereYouLeftIt 's link was interesting and also the comments she provides seem to articulate a lot of what I am concerned about (and that which had been mentioned earlier on too) - what is the other gender is not it?

I hadn't even considered the impact of the "unknown" drugs being given. It just seems so huge a sledgehammer solution to an issue that may or may not even be correctly diagnosed.

I personally don't believe in gender identity, just as I don't believe in any god. And I don't see why I should be required to pretend I do just because my non-belief makes you unhappy.

This.
Not much difference between violent transactivists and Islamist terrorists. Both can't deal with our non-belief. And of course, for both, this is an excuse and what it is really about is male supremacy.

From the link posted upthread
Advice to parents

One thing that stood for me in that advice given by a trans who had transitioned (and then detransitioned?)

AVOID THE INTERNET.

I think there is a real risk with teenagers (and adults) with the internet. When you love in your little internet bubble where everyone agrees that xxx is best since slice bread, it's easy to end up thinking that Thai is the only solution to whatever problem you have.
So that system that gives you so much support when you dint 'fit' with mainstream is also locking you donw in it, stopping you from finding ways to deal with the uncomfortable feelings.

The reality is that some people ARE trans (maybe we will later find it has to do with hormones in pg or whatever). Some people also have MAJOR emotional/MH issues. Some people just struggle to find their nice in a world that is telling that they ought to be xxx because they are a woman/men.
But treating everyone the same way by labelling them trans ain't helpful.

It's like saying that all fruits are apples and telling people they shouod be cooked in a certain way and refusing to accept that some are also oranges and strawberries and that other cooking methods (or no cooking) will be better for those fruits.

Absolutely spot on about the parallels with religion, somedyke.

I'm an atheist, but I'm happy to accept that other people want to/need to/ do believe in god or gods. But in a civilised society, I vigorously defend myself against the requirement to act as if any part of someone's religious beliefs were true, and to make any modification to my life to accommodate the beliefs of others. The same goes for a belief in a gender identity as with a belief in a soul - I'm a gender secularist every bit as enthusiastically as I am a religious secularist.

I heard the gender identity thing being referred to as a "Secular Religion" the other day. (Think it was Dave Rubin). I thought it was very apt. Although Secular Cult might be better

I came across this comment the other day. Had to screenshot it.

Datun

Thank you with providing me for my latest Facebook status: "Gender dysphoria would not exist if we didn't have oppressive gender roles to non-comform with. Abolish gender."

I actually saw a vid on Facebook yesterday about non-binary people explaining that they don't identify with femininity or masculinity and are a bit of both, so they don't have a gender etc etc.

I was sitting there screaming 'But that's absolutely fine! Females don't have to be feminine and males don't have to be masculine! You don't have to create a non-binary label to make gender non-conformity sound cool. You're gender non-conforming, you have rejected gender, that's basically the gist of the whole gender-critical thing... So close but yet so far!

I think most people are non-gender conforming, TBH.

I had a non-binary identified woman scream abuse at me for telling her that I consider her a woman.

Apart from the screeching of death threats and insults, I have to say, I find it pretty insulting that they feel so insulted at being called women.

I mean, shows how much they hate women, doesn't it?

so they don't have a gender

... neither have I, as far as gender identity nonsense is concerned.

(Of course, everyone, non-binary identified women and radfems alike have gender, i.e. the social construct forced on them by patriarchy, you can't just identify out of it. You'll be oppressed as woman under patriarchy whether you like it or not, and if you don't modify your body enough to pass as male, there's no escape. IF you have to modify your body to escape oppression, then that mutilation is the part of gender you didn't escape. There's no way out.)

Olenna Yes, I think so too. But, now some average non-conforming kids have created the non-binary label to be included in Trans.

By their logic, if I as a female reject femininity... then I'm not really a woman, I'm a non-binary transperson. That limits freedom of identity, rather than expanding it as they think.

I know, Elusive, that's the ridiculous thing.

Today I am wearing trousers (very male) but they are quite fitted (very female), a pink t-shirt (very female) but with a sports team on it (very male), no make up (very male) but jewelry (very female). But I'm still a woman, regardless

I'm so glad that I'm old enough and confident enough in my (increasingly wrinkled) skin to not give a shit about this in relation to myself. I'm scared rigid what it means for my DC, however.

Gender nonconforming and non-binary are just labels to describe the extent to which you present as typically masculine or typically feminine.

I haven't seen an adequate explanation of what this looks like.

Other than this bit of clothing is typically male, this bit female, this hairstyle male, these shoes female, etc. Occasionally (and more with regards to feminists than snowflakes), it might actually refer to roles rather than presentation, in terms of 'I do all the DIY and change the oil in the cars.'

Stay at home dads are 'gender non conforming'. They don't jump up and down shouting about it, they get on with the job.

Labels are of little benefit or interest to anyone else.

And in terms of trans, it doesn't mean you can change sex.

There is some evidence to suggest that the brain of trans-people with gender dysphoria has a recognisable difference (not a scientist). But whether that is innate or a result of self obsession, as the brain is plastic, they can't tell.

And it's immaterial. Because even if there is evidence for a different brain structure, the lived experience of someone in a male body is, and always will be, entirely different to that of a female.

Having gender dysphoria and feeling relief from it by presenting as the opposite sex is fine.

A man insisting that he is a woman and his genitals are female is clearly ridiculous. To then demand that lesbians who discount him as a partner, are transphobic, is abusive.

Women encounter men like this all the damn time. Often, they hide it until it's too late. But this new wave of transwomen positively signal it.

If anything says to me they know nothing about women it's this fond belief that we haven't all seen this before.

Vestal

Yes, same here, gender is nonsense in that respect.

Urgh.

You are assign a gender at birth. But gender simply means 'oppressive stereotypes of females and males'. Therefore, saying that you don't identify as a woman just means you reject the feminine stereotypes that have been placed on you, and vice versa. Without gender, no stereotypes would be assigned... There would just be male and female sexed people expressing themselves in a variety of ways.

Why don't people see it

Why don't people see it

Well, men don't see it because they benefit from the oppressive stereotypes. They don't want those stereotypes to go away, they just don't want them to apply to them, personally. But they need them to stay in place.

With women, I think it is Stockholm Syndrome. They realized that if they join the transcult, the violent males are on their side and they can get the illusion of freedom form gender by identifying out of womanhood.

If they demanded the abolition of gender, they'd be on the receiving end of the violence. They see it happen to radical feminists, and I think they are scared. Scared for their lives. But for their own safety, they have to love the violent males, so their brain refuses to acknowledge the violence, or that they are scared, even.