Jess Phillips is FUCKING LOVELY.

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

Despite the webchat.

I met her tonight along with GinevraFanshawe and Venusinscorpio. She was being interviewed by Helen Lewis to promote her new book.

I asked whether she had concerns about the proposals in the Private Members Bill to make gender equality a protected characteristic & the only criterion for changing gender self-declaration by downloading a form from the web. And she got it. She was clear that it couldn't be allowed to be that simple and that there are definite differences between women and transwomen.

We introduced ourselves afterwards as MNers who'd been on the webchat and explained that a lot of us are worried about this. Her message was, Don't stop fighting.

Incidentally it was fabulous to meet up with other Spartaci!

Ah sounds like a fab do. I've found Jess really good with Twitter interaction. And she seems to do quite a lot and follow through with things rather than just paying lip service. Glad to know she was nice in real life!

Great news!

Relief!

Jess was brilliant. I warmed to both her and Helen so much. Really good talk and Empress was straight in there and articulated our concerns so well.

Also want to say that it was fantastic to meet Empress and Ginevra. We should organise a Spartacus meet up!

That's good to hear!

Anyone else going to be on the web chat tomorrow with the WEP founder? (Name eludes me right now)

Catherine Mayer. Got my question in ready to be ignored.

She's doing the chat to promote her new book but I can't believe she doesn't know about the history.

It is a relief isn't it, you start to go mad when people keep telling you that transwomen are the same as women.

That's great news. Well done!

Will try and check out the Catherine Mayer web chat. I've heard that her new book (Attack of the 50ft Women) does cover the trans debate. Has anyone read it (it's on my to do list)?

Would be good to know if WEP are conducting any kind of research of their own into the impact of self-identification on women and girls.

Glad it was good

Well, she's not ignoring the questions...

She's not really answering them either...

Unless we are meant to subtly read between the lines?

And SLAM....

Sigh.

Bloody hell. Either she's a really slow typist, or she really really struggles with those questions. She has not answered any of them.

I'm not only more off WEP than I was before but I'm also put off the book, which I thought might be interesting.

She said she didn't think secondary sex characteristics determined sex. I'm assuming she means that by changing your secondary sex characteristics you can't change sex. She also said 'XX' people, a term generally used in order to make the most basic distinction.

I may be clutching at straws...

I know my local Waterstones has the book so I think I'm going to have a look through it there. Then I'll know whether I want to spend money on it.

She's sort of saying we have to read the book for the answers. No thanks. Is that how she deals with all potential voter questions?

But you are right that I don't believe secondary sex characteristics are a reliable determinant. People with XX chromosomes are sometimes born without vaginas but I suspect you would still be happy with them defining themselves as women. We are all on a series of spectrums

Hmm, I interpreted it the opposite way to you datun, it sounded to me suspiciously like the whole women can have penises and what about intersex argument....

Agree Venus. Only six answers in 45 mins which mostly amount to "read my book".

That's what I thought at first. But then I re-read it.

That's what I thought, ItsAll.

Oh well.

People with XX chromosomes who are born without vaginas (seriously how many of them can they be?), are still women, which is what I think she was saying. Although why it has to be stated, I don't know. Maybe the previous poster who said something like can we still call people with vaginas women?

I don't know. I'm going to have a look at the book & then decide. I'll report back.