Maajid Nawaz LBC- feminists are abandoning ethnic minority women and their causes for first world problems

[crystalgall]

Anyone listening?

He cites a story about a 17tr old black Muslim girl who was forced into an apology by Muslim fundentalist men online for being filmed dancing in the streets (twerking) while wearing a hijab.

He suggests that no feminist outlet commented on the story and that in general feminists are focusing on first world issues (he mentions the transgender issue and then Emma Watsons boobs and the academic who made a joke and was then fired? I don't know that story) and not engaging in supporting ethnic minority women in this country enough.

But you yourself are not discussing what happened either, you're taking it to an even more meta level by discussing our discussion.

The feminist board discussion is criticised for being wrong for discussing his comments directed towards feminists.

How many feminists on that pin head now?

Agreeing with the OP is not "discussion" What is absurd about not agreeing with the OP's take on this? I think the OP proves his point.

What happened was slut shaming, it happens all the time. It's an every day occurrence, it's every day sexism. Women have worked tirelessly against slut shaming for a very long time.

I can't comment to the specific religious aspects or the death threats.

Where are the Muslim women speaking out against this? Do those Muslim women who would speak out have a voice in media? I genuinely don't know.

His comments to feminists were not about what happened! How can you not see that?

Actually I don't think we know what he said about feminism as no one apart from the OP heard the show.

He criticised feminists for focusing on the wrong things

If that is what he said the fact the person who started the thread could not be bothered filling in the background, as far as I'm concerned , exactly proves his point.

What happened was not even of interest but ooh here is a man I can complain about.

But you yourself are not discussing what happened either, you're taking it to an even more meta level by discussing our discussion.
Exactly! Which is the point that I was trying to make - the absurdity of lass meta meta - which clearly was misunderstood as if it were me being meta meta.

It's like being stuck in a spiral of absurditum infinitum

What point of his has been proven here, you keep saying that?

I am one person, I certainly am not a spokesperson for feminists.

I think your own main contribution to the thread has been to sharpen that pinhead, Lass.

So it's not discussion because we agree with op? But I venture to predict that if we had been talking about the initial incident we would have been in agreement about that, too - I don't think many posters would have been in favour of shaming the teenage girl.

Here is a link to the program that I presume the OP was referring to - I'd be happy to transcribe his comments but am not in a place where I can play it right now.

lbc.audioagain.com/presenters/40-maajid-nawaz/402-the-whole-show

Gosh did that make you feel good ? Bunda

Absurd? - because I think the premise of this thread is absurd navel gazing?

Still wondering about Countess" free pass on calling me a scold.

What make me feel good - if you think I'm taking a cheap shot or am making a personal attack, please let me know. I genuinely don't wish to be unkind. I am trying very hard to be clear.

"...But here you're working yourself into a right lather over something that was not widely reported..."

Which does beg the (perhaps rhetorical) question: Why wasn't her shaming and the death threats more widely reported? There are in my view other far more important things happening in the country right now, but the feminist-minded online media isn't usually this slow to react to stories of women being treated in this way. It's perfectly legitimate to question the silence on this. To me, it isn't dissimilar to the silence/slow reporting on the German New Year's Eve sexual assaults etc. from last year.

BTW, Maajid Nawaz is/was a member of Quilliam Foundation. He was one of the muslims that London Mayor Sadiq Khan described as "Uncle Toms" because he was so critical of the behaviour of muslims when it comes to facing up to radical elements within 'the community' (yes that's right, the tolerant Mayor of London used that language).

There is no shortage of him directly calling out muslims men (and women) on such dysfunction.

Which does beg the (perhaps rhetorical) question: Why wasn't her shaming and the death threats more widely reported? There are in my view other far more important things happening in the country right now, but the feminist-minded online media isn't usually this slow to react to stories of women being treated in this way. It's perfectly legitimate to question the silence on this

It is perfectly legitimate to question the silence. He appears to have done so and is being criticised for it. I was questioning why it had come to more prominence.

One poster mentioned she had seen it but nothing much came of it.

why it had not come to more prominence.

Oh, sorry - I just tried to play the podcast and it's behind a paywall. So that's a useless link.

Might see it here. I can't try to play it.

m.facebook.com/groups/1580703442254735?view=permalink&id=1810876179237459&refid=18&ft=qid.6396734140918000366%3Amf_story_key.1810876179237459%3Atop_level_post_id.1810876179237459%3Atl_objid.1810876179237459

I tried earlier and wasn't prepared to subscribe.

Nawaz also spoke out in the last few days about that fairly dreadful retirement speech by Judge Lindsey Kushner , and as, bigolenerdy has said, is not in the least reticent about calling out Muslim men on such issues. All of which are other reasons for not dismissing what he had to say out of hand.

Am in bed but have just listened to the clip.

I'm sorry but it's a fucking outrage his criticism of feminists as opposed to his criticism of Muslim men who oppressed this woman.

No. No, no, no. I'm sorry but he has the microphone, he has the power, the platform and rather than call out his Muslim fellows for their egregious misogyny (who, by his own admission are the ones who popularised the video, made death threats and forced a videoed apology) he chooses to attack feminists?

No fucking thanks.

He has the power. Muslim men (and presumably women as well) did this to this woman. He is a man who has a platform, power and influence. Call them out on their oppression, call them out on their misogyny but he's clearly too cowardly to do that so he attacks feminists for "picking first world fights"

Fucking hell its all sorts of ways wrong and terrifying. It is terrifying that this happened to a British woman.

And an absolute outrage that feminists are somehow to blame!

Feminists have been fighting slut shaming for years! As I said before.

It is because of feminism that we can say that this woman can dance without shame in the streets.

It is because of feminism that we can say that she need not apologise for her behaviour

It is because of feminism that he has any ground to stand on in this society that she can act as she wants and not be condemned.

It is because of feminism that she has the right to express herself freely in the streets without fear of reprisal.

Yes, she was failed but these social norms are there because of feminism not in spite of it.

This is a ridiculous thread.

How the fuck is the issue here him having (apparently) criticised feminists, and not the horrific slut-shaming of this poor girl????? www.facebook.com/GoBrum/posts/387908628232856

I mean what the actual fuck?

He literally calls out the scumbag who slut shamed the girl on air

The focus of his attentions is not feminists, but the fact that this poor girl got slut shamed (and not only by Muslims, one of the comments on Facebook is from a non-Muslim woman saying that she shouldn't do it in a hijab, because "I'm not religious at all but women who have gone into Islam and wear the veil to protect their modesty and then you have girls who do this how modest do you think men will find women in Hijab now?").

I'm seriously wondering how the response of people to this story is to say 'nasty man criticising feminists, how very dare he'.

Maajid Nawaz is a rare secular Muslim and one of the good guys. In contrast it's very clear that slut shaming a woman for DANCING (for fuck's sake) in a hijab is a completely mainstream position in modern British Islamic society. I don't remember any Christians screaming when Madonna appeared on stage with stripping 'nuns'. Nobody gives a shit. And quite rightly so.

Yet apparently the biggest issue here is what Maajid Nawaz said about feminists? Fuck off with that.

The actual comments by Maajid on FB

'Hey Ali Dawah, you bullied a 17 year old girl into issuing a petrified public apology, and stoked up threats, all for... dancing.
You a real big man, bro. A real big man. '

'There was more frothing outrage by extremist Muslims at this (now terrified) hijabi twerking than they displayed toward hijabis joining ISIS'

' And here ☝🏽is the misogynist religious policeman himself who, on his roving-fatwa YouTube channel, instead of defending her right to do wtf she likes with her own body, shamed this terrified hijabi even more for dancing and humiliated her by broadcasting her petrified apology.'

This man is not the enemy here damnit.

The clip I posted had him only calling out feminists for failing. It is because of feminism that this woman can dance without condemnation in the streeets of the UK.

I never said he was the "enemy" and I don't think anyone else here did either.

He criticised feminists and when women respond to that criticism they are criticised?

He criticised feminists - there is a right if reply that is allowed aside from the issue of what happened to the woman. Is that really so difficult to understand?

The comments here are hilarious in the extreme. This man has had his life threatened numerous times for having the courage to stand up to misogyny in Muslim communities. A badge of honour he should be proud of in my opinion. He is right to criticize a certain group of feminists who turn a willing blind eye to certain practices in minority communities. It reminds me of the whole Danish cartoon affair. A pathetic rolling over by those who claim to be 'progressive', due to fear of the repercussions.

He's a talk-show host. It's his job to bring up talking points. It's silly to think he should or would refuse to criticise feminists.

Bundesliga

But he does call them out....

...and even if he hadn't (which he has), trying to dismiss his observations on this basis is plainly a fallacy.