Walking a woman home

[damnedgrubble]

My friend and I, both feminists, were discussing this last night. She expects that my Ds (18) walks her Dd (17) home when it's late at night; they are in a relationship and have been for 18 months. I agree that it's the appropriate thing to do. However, last night over several a glass of wine we were questioning how this fits in with our feminist selves.
What do you think? In the cold, sober, light of day it seems very different.

My point IAmAmy is that he hadn't really pulled himself together. Women are allowed to be traumatised and are contorted by their friends - mostly. Boys have to put on a big front compounding the misery.

Also, as I mention a lot, I work with troubled teenagers so am more than aware of the issues faced by both sexes.

It's not a competition. Men also suffer from male violence.

Comforted obvs - although contorted may be more interesting.

Women are allowed to be traumatised

Oh my. Have you seen the victim blaming, rape jokes, constant sneering at girls and women who speak out about what's happened, excusing of male behaviour which goes on? Even boys of my age do it no end. In my opinion you just cannot compare what girls experience purely for being female to boys' experiences. What it feels like to be in school uniform and commented on by a grown man following you, to be walking to a friend's house and shouted at by two boys in their late teens who then call you a "miserable bitch" for ignoring them as you're intimidated, the list is endless.

Men were nearly twice as likely as women (3.8% compared with 2.1%) to have experienced one or more violent crimes in the year prior to interview. The figures also showed that single people had the highest chance of being a victim (6.6%)

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/feb/07/crime-statistics-england-wales-violent-sexual-offences

It has some interesting facts on domestic and sexual violence as well.

Clearly IAmAmy none of the behaviour you mention has ever happened to me. Yes I am aware of it.

This thread is about men walking women home. Men are more likely to be attacked, killed, mugged than women.

You lump all men together. Men are victims of male violence too and suffer in silence mostly. This pain is not better or worse than what women suffer, but it is real and it should not be dismissed.

I think that you used when talking about street harassment is pretty inappropriate. As for me "lumping all men together", I can't see where I've done that. In my first post on this thread I said "most men who walk women home are doing it to be thoughtful". This topic makes me very angry because of how much I know girls suffer from male violence, what it does, how it's targeted at us purely for being female and I find it frustrating to see anyone claim it's worse for men.

Just a few of those which have even made any news from the last couple of months alone, misogynist hate crimes:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-38584264

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/02/groom-admits-raping-stranger-hours-marrying-pregnant-partner/

www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2017-02-28/police-outraged-by-rape-attack-in-ipswich/

IAmAmy - I was telling you not be so patronising, every women has suffered street harassment and I work in an area where I deal with the consequences. I hope you never know the things I know. The was to take the string out of the implied rebuke.

In my opinion you just cannot compare what girls experience purely for being female to boys' experiences

"boys experiences" are not just one thing. They are many and varied.

Again Amy many thanks for educating me.

Telling you two of my many experiences of street harassment is "patronising"? Alright.

I'm sure my brothers have plenty of anecdotes of the same happening, I must ask.

IAmAmy it is not either or. Statistically men are more likely to be mugged, injured or killed in street violence. If your brothers aren't aware of that perhaps you should tell them.

Women suffer terribly from street harassment, this is unpleasant, demeaning and shames society.

It is not a competition. Women suffer but men suffer from male violence too and we should not dismiss it.

find it frustrating to see anyone claim it's worse for men

It would be frustrating if anyone had said that. Men are more likely to be attacked on the street. Men often deal with this badly. These statements in no way detract from what women suffer.

Statistically men are more likely to be mugged, injured or killed in street violence. If your brothers aren't aware of that perhaps you should tell them.

I'll tell them in a moment, just after I've checked my female privilege.

I've checked my female privilege

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Women are harassed on the streets daily, it shames our society. Women are attacked sexually and domestically disproportionately, this is truly awful.

This thread is about being on the street where young men like the OP's son are far more likely to be attacked. Should he take a bigger risk to ensure she gets home safely?

I don't think it's clear that we're talking about the same type of violence with the stats though, for example more men might get killed in dangerous jobs or in gang fights rather than just walking home. My brother has been violently attacked more than me because he used to go out drinking and look for fights. It's not the same thing.

And in any case it's not just about probability, it's about impact, being mugged generally is massively different from being sexually assaulted.

The two people I know near where I live who have suffered from random violence at the hands of strangers while outside of their homes - which is what the OP was asking about, have been young teenage boys mugged by other teenage boys at knifepoint for their phones and money. very, very distressing, especially for the 14 year old child. That doesn't in anyway detract from the violence that women have faced during that time, often in their own homes, or the sexual harassment that myself and other women face on a near daily basis. Presuming that a bunch of self identified feminists are saying that on a thread like this is obtuse in the extreme. It wrong that young women are harassed and domestic violence against women is atrocious. That doesn't mean we throw the young boys to the lions though, especially ones that we are trying to teach not to be violent men.

Whatever the statistics, which - excluding muggings - are going to be pushed up by violence related to alcohol or gangs, ultimately it comes down to the perceived threat. If a woman, young or old, is comfortable walking home alone that's fine, but many aren't. The statistics might show there is minimal risk but I don't think it feels that way for many. Do young men feel this same fear and avoid walking alone at night? I suspect less so.

I'm sure a 14 year old boy who was mugged will get over it more quickly than a 14 year old girl who was murdered in broad daylight by a man unknown to her on a summer's day for no other reason than because she was a girl, if we're talking about violence we know of near where we live.

But statistically, if more men are victims of assault, that doesn't mean any one man is at more risk. Eg if there are 1000 men walking home alone in a town one night and 4 of them are assaulted, that's a one in 250 chance for each man. But there may only be 50 women walking home alone (because most of them get taxis or get a man to walk them home) And two of these women are assaulted, then their chances are much higher (one in 25).

Muggers may go for weaker looking people, who are disproportionately women, and men looking to commit sexual assaults will more often than not be looking specifically for a woman. The reason women suffer fewer assaults by strangers than men is precisely because of the greater safety precautions they tend to take. That said, i would walk home alone along well lit streets, in sensible shoes etc in an area i knew reasonably well. I don't think the risks are so high that women should be made to feel it's unreasonable to take them.

Men are more likely to experience male violence if they often socialise with violent men, or willfully walk into areas with a high crime rate, which women tend to avoid. That's why there might be, statistically, a higher risk.

It does not apply to men who walk home alone minding their own business.
Men who want to be safe have a much lower risk of being attacked than women who want to be safe.

I would not tell my daughter to let a random male walk her home, because statistically, the risk that this male rapes her is higher than the risk that there's a rapist hidden in the bushes outside.

I would however encourage my son to walk women home, as any hypothetical son of mine would hopefully not be a rapist.

Risk assessment is different there.

"Men who want to be safe have a much lower risk of being attacked than women who want to be safe"

I'm not sure about that, and don't like the implied argument that men who are victims of crime were somehow at fault.

I take the point that the stats need looking at carefully, eg to take account of proportions and not just flat numbers.

Many young men are mugged in broad daylight, walking home from school or work. I come across many incidents, 2 or 3 a month. Not drunk, not after dark, not in gangs. The majority give their phone to the mugger and walk away, they do not report as they feel foolish and weak. They do not advertise it widely to their friends. I am told in privacy because they are, often, ashamed.

Depending on where you live Vestal make sure your son is aware of the risks he is taking when walking alone. Actually, some of the muggings happened in a very middle class area.

Men are more likely to experience male violence if they often socialise with violent men, or willfully walk into areas with a high crime rate, which women tend to avoid. That's why there might be, statistically, a higher risk.

Nice bit of victim blaming there! Young men minding their own business being beaten senseless by strangers for no reason at all happens.A lot..

they do not report as they feel foolish and weak. They do not advertise it widely to their friends. I am told in privacy because they are, often, ashamed.

Yeah, that never happens to girls who experience harassment and sexual assault.

In a perfect world a woman/girl should be able to walk home, alone, at night, inebriated, and wearing high heels into the bargain. But we do not live in a perfect world. I have been that person - and managed to fight off an assailant. That was 30 years ago and I am still scared to walk alone at night. It's all about personal safety, not about making a point.

Otoh there was a thread here a couple of months ago about a woman who after a conference was asking if her boss was BU for not accompanying her back to her London hotel in a taxi, because she was a)pregnant and b)(obviously!) a woman and c)she wasn't sure where the hotel was. The majority of people, including me, thought that she was BU. This was an instance of wanting chivalry, rather than being afraid for personal safety.