Girls' school allows pupils to identify as boys

[IAmAmy]

Apologies if there's a thread on this or if this should be in an existing thread. I found out about this at a school near my own the other week: www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/19/st-pauls-girls-school-pupils-choose-gender-indentity

What do posters here think of this? I think it's quite a shame in a way, though I'd never want any pupil to feel uncomfortable. Going to a girls' school myself, I think they should be fighting against "gender" and conformity to what's expected from one or the other, this seems to be enforcing the idea certain traits mean someone should be a girl and others mean they're a boy (although I acknowledge my thinking may not be as developed as it should be on this).

IAmAmy

Hi Amy

The other thing about reinforcing gender roles is that a large part of the trans-ideology deliberately reinforces exceptionally damaging gender roles. It's not all just about skirts and make up.

Transactivists have said how they revel in street harassment, about how sex sessions with multiple men is empowering.

Autogynephilia relies on the perception of women as victims. It's pushing the stereotypical female gender role down just about as far as it can go.

(I sometimes wonder whether this compulsion to keep telling everyone how disadvantaged, discriminated against and abused they are, is all part and parcel of AGP.)

Quite a lot of parents on here are dealing with self-diagnosed transgender daughters who also are on the autistic spectrum - in our case undiagnosed until after the gender issues came to light. They are over-represented in the gender clinics. There is also a significant overlap with girls with anorexia. So they grow up with a weak sense of identity, not fitting in socially with other girls and then latch on to the idea (with the black or white thinking they are prone to) that they must be the other gender. In time, they may realise this isn't the case, and then return to their natal sex (of course this is so much harder if they are celebrated and applauded for their bravery, and worse provided with hormones "as the only treatment"). Whether or not this is relevant to this girls' school, I don't know, but it may be.

Datun very true. I think I read an article a year or two back by a certain quite high profile trans writer expressing enjoyment of street harassment, or at least defending it; I recall being enraged at the time. There's something I find particularly unpleasant about people who come to "identify as women" then going on to drone on about how great street harassment is, whilst "cis" women are told to keep quiet and not criticise them for it and anything else they say. Make up and skirts is part of it I think as it's saying they're part of how a woman "should" dress, but I agree the ideology you mention is really damaging.

Amy Afair, the website just has a piece about the uniform historically.

St Paul's has its schtick that no uniform encourages individualism & self-expression, but I take that with a pinch of salt personally.

Clothes are clothes. Yes and no. In an ideal world that would be true. In the real world, it's generally more true for women than for men.

And for some teenagers clothes can be very powerful (for them) in constructing a social identity.

For those with gender issues - clothes can become part of their construction of gender identity.

We live in a time of gender fluidity and freedom to dress how we like, but also one in which gender stereotypes are heightened.

It can lead to quite stereotyped styling, as in the cases of Jenner and Maloney. But then it's difficult to know whether they dress the way they do as it fits their concept of femininity or for other reasons.

Very interesting stopmakingsense - that makes a lot of sense.

Ninon I used to be a little envious of it, but since having no uniform requirements I tend to wear the same sort of attire (or even the same attire) every day anyway!

By "clothes are clothes" I meant more that I dislike this view of someone "dressing like a girl" or "dressing like a boy". Clothes can definitely be powerful and a way of expressing oneself, I enjoy wearing clothes I like, and can identify with them being a way of constructing an identity (even if I'm not particularly daring or unique with mine). It's when "construction of gender identity" starts where I feel uncomfortable; I just don't like the notion wearing a certain style or item of clothing is "feminine" or "masculine" and feel this kind of thing heightens gender stereotypes further - so I feel the supposed "gender fluidity" which exists now is, far from breaking them down, actually entrenching those gender stereotypes. It goes beyond clothing, too: a child/teenager likes past-times or even colours associated with the other sex, some would now say they're "actually" the other. Oh how I wish Delusions of Gender was widely read in schools.