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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How is this ok? For anyone involved.

68 replies

dollywobbles · 25/02/2017 00:33

This evening I went out for a few drinks with some female friends.
So far so normal. However, at the end of the evening, as we were all leaving the pub, the landlord called out to 6 of us 'make sure you get this one home safely'. He had his arm around the 7th member of the group. I said ' really? You're asking all of us to make sure one of us gets home safely?' He said 'she tries to walk home the long way and it's not safe'.
She is a 37 year old adult. Landlord has no idea where anyone else lives.
I was properly enraged by this, as were a few of the others (all of the others after we all discussed it), the suggestion we should protect one of our number, but not the others, from (I assume) being attacked by men.
It's ridiculous, infuriating and so bizarre: if she's at threat, how are the rest of us safe?
Even when I said how weird what he was suggesting was, the landlord showed zero recognition.
It's just a normal event isn't it?
Made me so angry.

OP posts:
TheSparrowhawk · 25/02/2017 09:49

Badcat you don't seem to understand my post at all. Where did I say that you should leave your drunk friend to walk home?

Trills · 25/02/2017 09:50

Badcat nobody here is saying that friends should not look out for each other.

We are saying that a person outside of the group TELLING us to look out for each other is patronising.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 09:50

What? Don't you always make sure your friends get home safe? Confused that's what friends do surely.

Badcat666 · 25/02/2017 09:51

Also most landlords will point out if someone needs help getting home or point out someone has had too much too drink.

Just because the landlord had a penis makes no bloody difference. They saw someone who was too drunk to get home and asked her "friends" to make sure she gets home ok.

This also happens to men. Been in plenty of pubs and clubs in my youth where the landlord or bar staff have asked male groups or mixed groups to make sure a man gets home ok.

None of them got offended and bad mouthed them.

angelicjen · 25/02/2017 09:52

I'm glad my friends are more caring than you.

Walkingtowork · 25/02/2017 09:54

Sparrowhawk has summed up the problem with this brilliantly

Badcat666 · 25/02/2017 09:56

trills it's not patronising. For all we know it might have been that her other "friends" were too busy or drunk too notice how bad she was. (Or maybe they didn't even really care?)

When did being concerned about the welfare of another human being become patronising? Or is it only patronising if a male tells a female that their friend needs help?

If so then I'd rather have a friend like the landlord than the friends she was with.

WhiskeySourpuss · 25/02/2017 09:59

From the information given in the OP I'd assume that the landlord knows this member of the group in some way (he knows where she lives & the route she usually takes home - perhaps she's a regular?).

If this is the case it may be slightly patronising but in a caring way - a bit like the way my dad's friend lectures me on not checking my tyres when I take the car into his garage... yes it's patronising but it's because he'd rather I wasn't stopped by the police & given a fine I don't get enraged I just promise that I'll check them I future.

piginboots · 25/02/2017 10:05

I don't really get the upset here. I have frequently asked others to look after or keep an eye on my male friends when they are drunk and I'm worried that they'll end up in trouble (robbed, lost etc etc). I don't see how this is so different.

Trills · 25/02/2017 10:06

There's no suggestion in the OP that anyone, including that particular friend, was especially drunk or in need of special care.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 10:10

I think I've worked out that you were all going to be going home together so it wasn't a case of leaving her alone but it sounds like he is friends with that one person so was basically saying "she said important to me, take care of her" maybe I have that wrong and she was more drunk than the rest of you and that's what he meant.

qumquat · 25/02/2017 10:19

Many posters are assuming this woman was drunk, or more drunk than her friends. I can't see any suggestion of this in the OP so I assume it wasn't the case. I'd find it incredibly patronising too. I can't imagine a similar conversation ever taking place with a group of male customers (unless again one is falling over drunk). I agree with Sparrowhawks excellent post.

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 10:21

He's not just some man advising women on safety.

He's a pub landlord, so it's part of his role, and he's speaking to the most appropriate people about it, female friends of the woman concerned.

qumquat · 25/02/2017 10:25

Maybe because I've often been on the receiving end of this sort of advice it immediately raises my hackles. I can walk home alone the long way round if I feel like it.

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 10:31

Yes, absolutely, if the woman prefers to walk home alone, that's her choice.

It doesn't seem to be what the OP is bothered by though.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 25/02/2017 10:46

I have never seen a police campaign advising men to stick together or watch out for each other

I think there have been examples of posters of mixed groups giving that message.

I'm not sure what is bothering the OP beyond perhaps a man said it.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 10:58

My local police service have had campaigns about getting home safely and there are different images used on the posters. Groups of men and groups of women. And they include the message about looking after your mates and Going out together, stay together, get home together.

GreyStars · 25/02/2017 12:09

If this was a random man, I would agree with the premis of what sparrowhalk has written.

Random man approaches group of women, puts arm round one of them, tells other six on the dangers of getting home and that this one who he knows vaguely likes to walk the long way home and needs protecting. Very annoying, none of his business. It would be irrelevant advise as I don't think anyone male or female should be walking home alone at night after drinking, nobody would interested group of friends. It is highly likely given the fact it was late at night they were leaving at closing time that the OP and her friends had been drinking.

However, this wasn't a random man, this is a pub landlord - male or female a pub landlord will often feel like they have a responsibility to ensure their customers male or female get home safely, especially those leaving at the end.

They will be used to identifying people who are in a vulnerable state, it may be more obvious to them than other people as there used to be surrounded by people under the influence of alcohol.

They will know who else has been in that pub that night, and they might have their doubts about someone and therefore have become a bit on the alert about who is walking home alone.

Lots of what's if and buts with this thread, but stand by my original view that on the face of it,with the information given that this was a human being looking out for another human being and actually doing their job.

As for the landlord thinking the woman might be attacked by men, No mention of her being attacked just her safety. Her falling over into a bush might have been their main concern, who knows they were just doing their job IMO.

Trills · 25/02/2017 12:32

It seems like the landlord thought he was one of their friends, in which case it would not be weird, but the OP thought he was "a person whose bar they sometimes go to", and so it was weird.

We only have the OP's description to go on, so I've responded as if she is right.

Datun · 25/02/2017 13:01

To be honest there is not enough information in the OP for me to reach conclusion.

I'd like to know why he singled out that one girl. Did he know her? Was she drunk?

And I am fully aware of rape myths and I try wherever I can to dispel them. But without more information as to why he thought she was more vulnerable than the rest, I can't really judge it.

And yes, I totally agree that in these situations it would be useful if a klaxon went off above the landlords head saying 'male violence needs addressing!' instead of just not mentioning it and blindly accepting that's the way things are.

It's difficult, because although I don't blame him for what he said, I wish he did not inhabit a mindset/world that lets him say it without thinking.

Errrmmm · 25/02/2017 13:13

the suggestion we should protect one of our number, but not the others, from (I assume) being attacked by men.

You 'assume'! That's abit sexist. He could have been talking about a group of women trouble makers who hang around there, a pack of wild dogs, open man hole, anything really,

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 13:20

We don't know he thought she was more vulnerable. He just knew her route home and was concerned by it. He didn't know the situation of the others so just commented on hers to the appropriate people - her female friends.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 25/02/2017 13:25

one how are you supposed to all get back home together if you don't live together?
I mean in a very practical way, at least one person will have to walk back home alone.....

That sort of advice always annoys the hell out of me as it is impossible to do for everyone.

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 13:29

"He said 'she tries to walk home the long way and it's not safe'."

"She tries to" is very paternalistic. I'd expect him to be saying it about a daughter, niece etc.

VestalVirgin · 25/02/2017 13:45

"She tries to" is very paternalistic. I'd expect him to be saying it about a daughter, niece etc.

That is why I immediately assumed she was drunk. Because drunk people "try to" do lots of things, without success.

If she was not drunk, and/or he did not know her well, then it is extremely weird behaviour, but if she was, then it was just perhaps a bit superfluous to tell her friends to keep her safe, as they knew that already.

Yes men only dispensing unnecessary advice is annoying. But what exactly should the landlord have done? Should he have called the police?
Called her a taxi she might not have the money for? Called and paid for a taxi that she possibly would refuse to use?

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