Wow. I'm pro choice but what nonsense

[DementedUnicorn]

www.facebook.com/TheHunRealIssues/posts/384293038617039:0

Oh please Lighthouser. There have been literally thousands of posts of intelligent, thoughtful on MN on this subject with links to facts, statistics and peer reviewed studies, you might want to read some of them. That article reads like it was written by a twelve year old. We're grownups, the old "you're hateful bigots!" line means nothing.

intelligent thoughtful discussion

The trans isue here is a minor thing compared to the pro choice (which affects many more people than there are trans) . Let this person voice her opinion in any way she wishes if it is in support of rights for all women.

Itwas, she isn't just voicing support, she's telling us not to forget "men and nonbinary people can get pregnant too" and we need to qualify and adjust our language. Which is offensive because men can't get pregnant and therefore we need not change the way we're talking.

Perhaps you also believe this as you've referred to Noah as "she".

Men can't get pregnant. Transmen can get pregnant. Transmen who get pregnant have female genitals and will be accorded all the rights and benefits as everybody else with female genitals.

itwas

It can be a bit difficult remembering the correct pronouns

An associate of mine has a trans child and i use the correct pronouns more that they do...very difficult for them after knowing someone in a particular way for so long

I came across an interesting quote from Jean-Jacques Rousseau, which seems to fit this debate:

"Nature never deceives us; it is always we who deceive ourselves."

Shins. No, I do not believe that men can get pregnant. No question about that. I just prefr to read the the pro choice message in this rather than the trans 'its all about me' message. I can skip her life story (it's boring anyway - most women have had a pregnancy scare at some time and her emotions don't differ much to mine when I had a pregnancy scare as a teen) and read the last paragraph. The Trans issue is becoming such a huge issue to women that our focus is being diverted from the issues that still matter very much an that we still need to stay up for. The trans issue is sadly, but necessarily taking up too much discussion time and energy.

itwas

I completely agree that the trans issue gets in the way of women's issues generally. But when it becomes transphobic or cissexist to attach those issues to 'women' and you have to scrabble around finding other words, it feels as though it is driving a stake through the heart of women's issues generally.

Talking about pregnancy, abortion, miscarriage etc as issues that affect women, rather than issues that affect 'people with vaginas' dilutes the potency inherent in the fact that it is women, not people generally who are affected.

When there are sites dedicated to women involving things like moon cups, for instance, and they are invaded by trans-activists insisting that every word that indicates it is a woman's problem be changed to either include men (transmen), or simply not talked about because they are triggering to trans-women and it's transphobic because not every 'woman' menstruates, it starts to become a big deal. And I agree, it really, really shouldn't be.

But these sorts of comments can get abusive very quickly. And it suddenly does become an issue.

Absolutely agree Datun. The whole focus of women's issues is changing. The progress that has been made is becoming overshadowed. Voices of women are bwing drowned out.