Female abusers

[iremembericod]

I've been the victim of male violence and abuse many times in my life and this is not about saying that doesn't happen. I know that most violence is from men.

What has been made me challenge some of my thinking around the 'male abuser' narrative that I've held for so long (backed up by stats etc) is that yes, females do not abuse like men (with violence) but females abuse in a way that is actually very rarely violating our current laws.

The abuse I have had first hand experience of is the systematic emotional abuse of children and (most often) ex partners. This is berating, manipulating, poisoning, frightening, controlling...everything you read about on the Stately Homes threads. I wonder about the numbers on this because I'm starting to think that the female form of abuse is just as prevalent as the male form of abuse and that has really challenged my world view and although there are some laws, the reality is it is nigh on impossible to get a conviction for emotional abuse.

This abuse is simply not punished by the law and despite it being extremely harmful causing lifelong mental health issues for its victims, there is very little that people can do if they have a family member who is dishing out the female form of abuse.

I'd be really interested to hear what others think, I realise that the argument will go that 2 women a week die at the hands of men in the U.K., and it's not to discount that in any way, I'm just interested that there is this underground, non-punishable form of abuse that is going on by females that might not directly kill people, but certainly lines people up for a difficult life.

I have no idea Laura, that is why I would like to know.

Well, whatever an individual prejudiced social worker might think, there's no way they would dare to presume any such thing in care or supervision court proceedings. If I close my eyes, I can imagine the snarl building up on the faces of some of the judges.

This whole thread is a credit to these forums, in places where men's rights are discussed I never see any self reflection on male abuse, so it's refreshing to see such discussed here.

I've made the case before that looking at abuse of children might be a fruitful avenue in the examination of male violence. I have no idea on EA, but I know little boys are more likely to be spanked than little girls, and again it's more likely to be the mother that does this. Interestingly the chances of spanking or hitting reduces by 3% each year the child reaches. In short the closer a child gets to being of a size they could realistically defend themselves the less likely they would be to get thumped. Abusers with a size advantage will use it in context of physical abuse seems to be ubiquitous.

As to looking at the context of why do women who abuse do it within a framework of gender discrimination may have some merit, but I think we must be cautious as it is crucial that men and women are both percieved to be equal as moral agents. Besides the whole line self detonates, as an overwhelming majority of abusers were abused themselves in someway be they male or female, so if women have the get out clause of patriarchy for their abuse then everyone has an excuse who can point to a troubled upbringing, be that at the hands of a man or woman.

I am a man, and I have thankfully grown up mostly free of abuse and the only two occasions that spring to mind were both by men. For that and other reasons I grew up with a pretty dim view of my own gender. If the genders had been flipped I may well have grown up with a very misgynistic view of women. I can see how a little boy having grown up being abused by his mother would have all of his adult relationships and general attitude towards women warped in the extreme and that coupled with a size differential and you have the ingredients for perpetuating the abuse.

I cannot speak with authority about much of the above. All I would suggest is some large scale studies of men imprisoned for varieties of abuse and mine down into their backgrounds and see what commonalities exist and then see where that rabbit hole leads.

I recall reading a psychoanalyis take of Nazi Germany, which examined the cultural practices of beating children in Germany and Austria pre-war, and I believe there were whole books written on the subject of how to and how severely to beat your child to instill discipline/cultural values (which was far in excess of even Victorian England's attitudes). The conclusion of that book was that something like the rise of Fascism, the Holocaust et al found their roots in childhood abuse and trauma.

Lloyd de Mauser if I recall correctly, is the author. Edward Ross Dickenson has also written on this. The harsh discipline you describe in late 19th century Germany was in schools and institutions, not at the hands of mothers. Not sure if you are implying that men abuse because of mothers beating them, but in the case you cite re Nazi Germans, you are talking about an education and institutional system run by men in the earlier decades.

I may have the authors wrong, several have written on the generational roots of National Socialism. There is an article that equally looks at the military experience of WW1 in the German context. The story is far too complex to put to one cause.

I was thinking about this on the way home today. I grew up in the 60s and 70s when corporal punishment was considered acceptable.

I certainly don't think I was abused, but it was part and parcel of life.

Since I've been on Mumsnet I have realised I was probably very lucky.

I just wanted to say my heart goes out to people like rebel and cocoa and anyone else who has to spend an unfair proportion of their adult life coming to terms with things.