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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For those critical or curious about Tran Agenda

38 replies

MercyMyJewels · 18/02/2017 14:29

Please watch this. It's long, but compelling, Mary-Lou Singleton in particular is brilliant

www.heritage.org/marriage-and-family/event/biology-isnt-bigotry-why-sex-matters-the-age-gender-identity

OP posts:
FloraFox · 19/02/2017 12:39

222 I don't think the Heritage Foundation is well known in the U.K. I agree that TRAs will try to make hay of the connection with a conservative group and people who post the link should be aware of that. However I think there is a fairly easy response which is that even conservative Christians are more willing to listen to radfem women than so-called progressives. What does that say about the progressives?

PencilsInSpace · 19/02/2017 12:43

I get where you're coming from, I made the same point about linking to articles in public discourse / witherspoon institute the other day. I agree it's better to be aware of the background which is why I'm pleased this coalition are being upfront about their differences. I do think it's an issue that people could inadvertently link to a source that would bring them backlash they weren't prepared for. It's:

Why are you linking to a right-wing bigot site?
Shit, am I? I had no idea, sorry Blush

versus:
Why are you linking to a right-wing bigot site?
Because you on the left have denied us all platforms Angry

PencilsInSpace · 19/02/2017 12:44

even conservative Christians are more willing to listen to radfem women than so-called progressives. What does that say about the progressives?

YES!

222CherryCoke · 19/02/2017 13:38

Thanks both for understanding where I'm coming from. Pencils the two reaction / response scenarios you laid out sums it up well.

venusinscorpio · 19/02/2017 14:43

It does, yes. That is the stark choice.

222CherryCoke · 19/02/2017 17:24

CharlieSierra thanks, I've just read up on Critical Sisters. Here's hoping they grow and grow.

C8H10N4O2 · 19/02/2017 18:03

My current first recommendations for new-to-vegging are this site which has full meal plans and shopping lists:

ohmyveggies.com/

And this book as its designed for meat eaters sharing with veggies and migrating veggies:

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1848992653/?tag=mumsnetforum-21

For vegetarian books focus on books written by actual vegetarians eg Rose Elliot, ignore the token veg book done by celeb cooks. Honourable exception here is the Hugh FW book which is great (although I've heard him say he eats veggie a lot of the time which may explain it).

C8H10N4O2 · 19/02/2017 18:05

Blush sorry wrong thread!

C8H10N4O2 · 19/02/2017 18:24

What I meant to post was this:

notazerosumgame.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/how-do-they-know-who-to-kill.html

Which for succinctly expresses why the conflation of sex and gender is nonsense.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 19/02/2017 19:19

The left has let down feminists so badly and for so long that I've become disillusioned. I very much enjoyed the video and feel that if the only way feminists can debate the issues in public is under the auspices of a right wing think tank it says a lot more about the weaknesses of the left than anything else.

222, you say the Heritage Foundation has enormous influence on policy. If this is so we can hope they're able to put the brakes on the current erasure of women. We are facing a threat to the very existence of women as a sex class. It puts other issues in the shade.

I hope working with right wing women will help us in our fight. Feminists aren't getting very far on our own, are we?

222CherryCoke · 19/02/2017 20:14

Yes, Prawn I agree that we need to work with allies where we find them and I don't think anything I've said suggests otherwise.

I do think we should be aware of the broader ideological context of publications, websites, conferences etc. (particularly as they relate to issues of women's rights and gay/lesbian rights) when sharing them, as the best weapon transactivists have against women who might otherwise organise, protest, speak out about female erasure, is the accusation of bigotry/transphobia/privilege. I don't want to fuel that fire where it can be avoided.

When we come across something that eloquently makes the points we wish to make, yet also strengthens the perception that the only people who oppose the trans agenda are all the same right wing Heritage Foundation types who opposed "women's lib" and "the gay agenda" in previous decades, we might each want to weigh up the pros and cons of liking/sharing/referring others to it. And in order to weigh it up, we need to know a little about the ideology of the publication / conference host. That's all.

For me, with lots of Americans among my social media connections, who will all be familiar with the HF, I won't be sharing it because I think more people would see all the HF branding and think "yup, when she started sounding TERFy I wondered if she was going right wing in her old age, guess she is, that explains it" than would actually sit through an hour of speeches and hear how much sense they're all talking. In a UK context where the HF branding wouldn't give off such an unmistakable "Ultraconservative conversion therapy advocates" vibe, maybe I'd weigh up the pros and cons and share the video. Or maybe knowing a little about the HF would mean I'd preface the video with an attempt to preemptively address some of the likely responses.

Anyway... It's an interesting discussion but I did not mean to detract from discussion on the content of the video itself, so I'll stop going on about it.

venusinscorpio · 19/02/2017 20:29

C8H yes, I read that article. It's a powerful piece.

user1487544648 · 19/02/2017 23:13

If you are concerned about the Second Reading of the Gender Identity (Protected Characteristic) Bill 2016-2017 scheduled for 24 February 2017 and its impact upon young adults and children please refer to this website for a comprehensive overview and how best to respond to protect the rights of children and young people: www.transgendertrend.com/gender-identity-rights-of-the-child/

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