Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Ahhhhg, THAT Steve Bell cartoon

83 replies

ethelb · 28/01/2017 17:55

I don't know if there has been a thread about this and the pure misogyny in it: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jan/26/steve-bell-uk-us-theresa-may-donald-trump-cartoon

Yes there was homophobic satire around Blair and Bush (and Trump and Putin) but all of those implied a degree of consent to the situation.

Theresa May is not the first and won't be the last PM to have her dealings with US foreign policy criticised. And with good reason.

But for some reason, this particular Prime Minister gets anal rape jokes 6 months into her premiership? And my Facebook is full of the menz who think it is all totes hilare, and are mortally wounded if anyone suggests it is misogynistic.

A week after the women's march people. A fucking week!

OP posts:
LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 28/01/2017 23:16

Brush up on your art history, people! Like many of Steve Bell's cartoons, it's a rip-off of a Gillray print published over 200 years ago. The original print had nothing to do with rape, it parodied a royal couple who were rather contrasting in size. To my eyes, Bell's cartoon satirises May for metaphorically getting to bed with Trump, and suggests that she will be crushed by him. I think he has a point. I am as feminist as they come, and I see nothing offensive here. I am much more disturbed by the spectacle of May courting the likes of Trump and Erdogan within the space of two days.

Itwasthenandstillis · 28/01/2017 23:16

I think the aim is show how shocking and unacceptable her determination is to have a 'special relationship' with such a vile, misogynistic,sexual abuser.

Itwasthenandstillis · 28/01/2017 23:25

You put it better than me LordRoth. I think that the Trump and erdogan things sum up what a desperate situation the UK have got themselves into with Brexit.

CorporalNobbyNobbs · 28/01/2017 23:32

I don't like it but I didn't see it as rape either or necessarily anal.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/01/2017 23:54

Brush up on your art history, people! Like many of Steve Bell's cartoons, it's a rip-off of a Gillray print published over 200 years ago

I have already pointed that out. It is a feeble excuse.

Rainatnight · 29/01/2017 00:05

I find it really shocking. He wouldn't have done it if our PM was male. It's specially making a point about female sexual submission

Rainatnight · 29/01/2017 00:06

Specifically, sorry

OlennasWimple · 29/01/2017 00:17

I agree with Het - we are supposed to be shocked, because the cartoon is shocking and the situation we are in is shocking.

I do think it has a hefty dose of misogynism, though

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 29/01/2017 00:26

I have already pointed that out. It is a feeble excuse.
A feeble excuse for what, exactly? You are reading into this cartoon a rape narrative that simply doesn't exist. I don't think that wilfully misreading a satirical image and implying that May should be beyond the satirist's scope because of her sex does women any favours at all. Bell, like Gillray, produces shocking, visceral images of politicians. It's what satirists have been doing for hundreds of years. Bell depicted David Cameron as a condom, something which Cameron was reportedly furious about. If we want women to have equality it makes no sense to say that a woman PM should be afforded some sort of chivalrous exemption from satire.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/01/2017 00:36

You are reading into this cartoon a rape narrative that simply doesn't exist

I wasn't reading a rape narrative into it.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 29/01/2017 00:37

Sorry, I see you don't think it's about rape, Lass but object to the image's ridiculing of a Tory female PM. On that point, the rest of my post still stands. Satire is part of the British political landscape. Our politicians have been subjected to images like this (and, yes, worse), since at least the seventeenth century. The royal family also used to be targets (though not today, for some reason). Would you be happier with censorship? With women PMs not being satirised because it's rude (even though it goes with the job)?

Satire, incidentally, has traditionally been seen as an important aspect of the British constitution, an expression of the liberty of the people. In the eighteenth century, European visitors to Britain were astonished by Gillray's prints and the freedom that the public had to ridicule with impunity those in power.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/01/2017 00:37

Bell depicted David Cameron as a condom, something which Cameron was reportedly furious about

I didn't think that was clever or effective.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 29/01/2017 00:49

And, dammit, I'd forgotten about Bell's depictions of George Osborne in bondage gear until this discussion made me dredge it up from the depths of my suppressed memory.

AskBasil · 29/01/2017 06:24

I'm slightly confused by what you are arguing LordR.

This is the feminist board. It's a place to discuss things from a feminist angle.

No-one's arguing this isn't satire, or that satire isn't a valuable strand of political commentary.

But the OP is trying to have a discussion about the way satire taps into societal misogyny from a feminist angle. Satire isn't free from racism, sexism, homophobia etc., on the contrary, it often taps into those attitudes, to make its point.

What Steve Bell has done here, is tap into the rapey idea that when a man fucks a woman, he is degrading her. Fucking is in of itself, seen as a loss of power for a woman. "We're fucked" as an expression, is not understood as "we've just had a really good time", but "we've lost". "I'm going to fuck you if you don't do as I say" as used in Tarantino-type films, is not a promise of orgasms and sexual ecstacy, but a threat of (metaphorical) rape, an experience of pain and humiliation. Because rape and sex are used almost interchangeably in patriarchy, hence why some people see rape imagery and others see merely sex.

shins · 29/01/2017 08:59

That's really shocking. Genuinely taken aback by that. Comments aren't allowed anymore, wonder if there were critical ones deleted.

Original poster
ethelb · 29/01/2017 10:04

Thank you Askbasil. I have had people repeatedly decide to mansplain satire to me when I have bought this up over the past couple of days. But that is to completely miss the point.

I wonder if the problem with this is that the male gaze has been normalised in this scenario, and we are all expected to look at it quite unquestioningly from a male perspective, with patriarchal norms. Then it will all just be totes hilare?

OP posts:
msanonymouse · 29/01/2017 10:14

What Steve Bell has done here, is tap into the rapey idea that when a man fucks a woman, he is degrading her.

Yes, but is he countenancing that trope? Or employing it for satirical purposes? In 'A Modest Proposal' Swift proposed that the rich should eat the babies of poor parents, but he was of course taking the piss. See also Chris Morris's skewering of tabloid hypocrisy in the Brass Eye Paedophile Special.

And is it even suggested that May is being 'fucked'? Is not the point of the image more that she is just getting into the bed with him - engaging in the political equivalent of a torrid affair? You could interpret it as a comment on the hypocrisy of a leader effectively prostituting the better values of her country by defering to an openly misogynist sexual predator.

It's questionable to interpret satire on such a literal level.

May has been sucking up to racist, misogynist, crypto-fascist lunatic. She deserves to be pilloried for that. Cameron's penis head and Osborne's bondage get up were also justified.

And of course as someone else said, the image is a homage to a Gillray print.

Original poster
ethelb · 29/01/2017 10:21

Msanonymouse but does she deserve to be pilloried for that in a way that is specific to women.

Put it this way, if she were Jewish how would be acceptable to have Trump dressed up in Nazi regalia to really push the point home?

OP posts:
msanonymouse · 29/01/2017 10:51

Point taken, but would it be different if a male PM had been depicted in a sexual scenario with another female leader? With perhaps her on top? I don't know. I kind of see your point.

msanonymouse · 29/01/2017 10:55

That line of thought does lead you to the conclusion that any sexually inflected joke about a woman is off limits while those about men are permissable. Think of Bell's dom /sub Cameron and Osborne.

Maybe that is the way it has to be. I'm not sure.

cowgirlsareforever · 29/01/2017 11:01

Theresa May has a job to do. She would probably prefer not to have to spend time in Trump's company but like other women in the professions she has to ignore the personality and get on with the job.

msanonymouse · 29/01/2017 11:12

May has refused to condemn Trump's outrageous ban on migrants. She has also just sold £100m worth of jets to Erdogan, which he will doubtless use to massacre Kurds.

Neither of these things are inevitable parts of her job.

FlorisApple · 29/01/2017 11:15

Great post, AskBasil.

I agree, OP, it's horrid. For those who say that rape didn't occur to them in looking at the cartoon; Donald Trump has been accused by multiple women of raping them, including one who was 13 at the time. Others have accused him of attempted rape. I don't think you can discount that context from the meaning of the cartoon.

I am just finding so much in the Guardian to be misogynistic these days. it really saddens me that this is what is supposed to be a clarion for the Left.

OurBlanche · 29/01/2017 11:23

I hope not! Feminism, equality, etc are about equal opportunities and not special protections.

Such satirical abuse should be equally acceptable re either sex.

And such satire should be an acceptable part of societal/political comment... or we become anodyne, far too interested in stifling 'offense' and being seen to be nice, fair, and other odd illogical wants.

There is no protection against being offended, nor should there be! Think it through and it becomes very frightening...

OurBlanche · 29/01/2017 11:24

Sorry, that was to Ms post about sexist jokes and women/men