Russia plans to decriminalise domestic violence!

[Notwhatiexpected]

Is there a thread on this already? The news is hideous:

www.economist.com/news/europe/21715726-it-fits-traditional-values-lawmakers-say-why-russia-about-decriminalise-wife-beating

It's not "wife beating"- it would decriminalise corporal punishment for children too or indeed domestic violence against men. The bill is being promoted by a female politician

But the figures for women killed in the home are scary, according to the NY times:

"In 2013, she said, more than 9,000 women died in criminal assaults and more than 11,000 were badly injured. In 2014, she said, “more than 25 percent of all murders were committed in families.”

I am not sure I understand your point, do you think it is ok because it is about beating men and kids too, and promoted by a women? Or just not a feminist issue?

I think it is a huge issue.

It is indeed hideous - yet more rolling back of the meagre gains that women have made.

I don't think I get your point LassWiTheDelicateAir. If a policy or law adversely affects one particular group more than others (in this case women and children) then it is significant whether that was the stated intention or not? I say stated because its rather obvious in this case what the impact will be.

It is awful op. I read it desperately hoping (although obviously doubtful) that it was a pragmatic decision to get more victims to come forward but no.

It is absolutely horrendous - it's been covered on a number of news outlets. Those figures for the numbers of murders are just beyond belief. And yes, I knew it was a female member of the Duma pushing for this. "Individual woman totally on board with systematic misogyny while she does fine out of the system" is hardly a new thing.

Of course it's hideous. The problem of DVA is enormous in Russia as everywhere else.

I am not sure I understand your point, do you think it is ok because it is about beating men and kids too, and promoted by a women? Or just not a feminist issue?

Gosh yes. You've rumbled me. I really am in favour of corporal punishment and domestic violence.

Don't be so ridiculous. The proposed bill is symptomatic of something very wrong with Russian society that any one is promoting this bill.

I see it as an issue affecting children. The state is sanctioning violence towards children. I do not think it will only be male parents who will dish it out.

It is more than a bill against children, it's also saying very clearly, that men can beat up their wives and women do not have the right to the protection of the law when that happens.

Seeing it as only a message about children, is wilful avoidance.

It is seeing it as a society as a whole, men and women, who accept violence as a norm. As I understand it , it has plenty of female support.

Do you understand why it has plenty of female support?

Clue: It's in the article.

Honestly Lass in the words of Tim Robbins in Shawshank Redemption: are you being deliberately obtuse?

Let's suppose Group A gets battered by Group B ten times more often than Group B gets battered by Group A. One day battering gets decriminalised. It is reasonable to assume that Group A might be slightly more concerned about this and might consider it a law that would adversely affect them. Or do you think they run about saying "yipppeee, now we're all free to batter each other?"

Why do have such a need for crimes to be distributed so goddamn equally all the time? When the reality is they are not?

"The amendment treats a first conviction for domestic battery as an administrative offense, carrying a penalty of a $500 fine or 15 days in jail.

If Mr. Putin signs the measure into law, only injuries like concussions or broken bones, or repeated offenses committed in a family setting, would lead to criminal charges.Defenders of the measure say it will protect parents’ rights to discipline their children and generally reduce the state’s role in domestic life"

So first offences as long as they don't cause concussions or broken bones will get you a fine of $500 and NO CRIMINAL RECORD

So that's ok then

It is seeing it as a society as a whole, men and women, who accept violence as a norm. As I understand it , it has plenty of female support

It's kind of depressing that there is a society that accepts violence as the norm. I wonder and would hope that they get to see that there are many people outside Russia who do not see or accept violence as the norm.

&If Mr. Putin signs the measure into law, only injuries like concussions or broken bones, or repeated offenses committed in a family setting, would lead to criminal charges.Defenders of the measure say it will protect parents’ rights to discipline their children and generally reduce the state’s role in domestic life"*

I read an article The Guardian about a week ago and that was the quote struck me. The Guardian article focused on the female politician who is promoting it. Adult women have at least a possibility of doing something about their situation; children have none and I very much doubt it will only be male parents who are doing the disciplining.

Here is the Guardian article. As for being "obtuse" LessThan I suggest you read it and see how this will impact on children and the elderly.

Maria Mamikonyan, chair of the Russian Parental Resistance, said it was ridiculous to criminalise “ordinary educational slaps, which almost all families use to let children know their limits”.

But Popova said it was depressing that people were campaigning for the right to beat vulnerable relatives.

“We went to protest and there were people standing there with placards demanding the right to beat their own children. I couldn’t get my head round it,” she said.

Link

amp.theguardian.com
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/19/russian-soften-domestic-violence-law-decriminalise-womens-rights

So your argument is that it is not relevant to women because women can walk away from DV if they want while children can't?

Right. I can't be bothered to argue against wilful silliness like that, there's plenty of resources for anyone who wants to, to find out why DV myths like that are not correct.

As a practical matter, many women in countries with specific laws against domestic violence and with domestic violence resources like refuges don't have any meaningful possibility of improving their situation, and in fact, some of them stay with abusive partners believing that it is the best way to protect their children.

I didn't realize when I read the first articles about this development in Russia, that they did not previously have specific laws against domestic violence. It's a very disturbing development, for women and for children.

It's also worthwhile to note that in all of the countries of the UK and in all of the states in the US, corporal punishment of children is legal, but hitting one's partner is not. I think that it is confusing from a legal standpoint to conflate the two.

It's a deliberate conflation as it implies that men are the adults with authority which they might need to exercise against women and children.

So your argument is that it is not relevant to women because women can walk away from DV if they want while children can't?

No my argument is that this does not affect only women. It affects any vulnerable person within the family. My argument is this is far more than a women's issue.

I'm also rather shocked that your outrage Basil doesn't extend to the woman who was arguing for the right to beat children.

But I posted this on the feminist board, because I thought people who are interested in human rights, might be interested in talking about this. Not because it is solely a women's problem. I can feel empathy and want to challenge injustice outside of what affects me. I am really weirded out the dismissal by lass hopefully I just don't understand you, where do you think this should be talked about, if not here? We agree that it isn't a wonderful progressive change in the law, right?

But I posted this on the feminist board, because I thought people who are interested in human rights, might be interested in talking about this

But apparently it is only worth taking about if it affects women.

Where have I said it should not be talked about? Please point to where I said that.

I've said quite the opposite but apparently it' s only relevant to posters on here to consider how it affects women rather than addressing how Russia has become a society where men and women think this is acceptable.

If Trump is on MN he will have this done before I wake tomorrow too.

"I'm also rather shocked that your outrage Basil doesn't extend to the woman who was arguing for the right to beat children."

I haven't mentioned being outraged or where my outrage extends, so please don't make things up.