Women who sexually abuse

[msanonymouse]

I raised this issue within another thread and was urged to start my own thread rather than derail the discussion. So I have.

I referred to a conference, some years ago, focusing on the perpetration of child sex abuse by women. A number of women calling themselves feminists turned up at the event. The conference organiser reports that:

"They stood up and started yelling about how terrible it was that I was detracting from the fact that male power was to blame."

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/female-sexual-abuse-the-untold-story-of-societys-last-taboo-1767688.html

I referred to this incident to illustrate a point I was struggling to make: that a binary model of gender oppression is valid and necessary, but if applied to all the permutations of abusive pathology that arise within a complex social reality it can prove problematic.

Surprisingly, one poster said the women were right to speak up. As any attempt to increase awareness of CSA and speak up for its victims is a self-evidently good thing, this seemed a problematic attitude to take.

Please understand: I in no way mean to suggest this attitude is characteristic of feminists. Neither am I attempting to detract from or downplay the fact that the overwhelming majority of CSA (and sexual violence of all kinds) is perpetrated by males.

However, the sexual victimisation of children by women is taboo. And it strikes me that some feminists are so uncomfortable with the fact that women are capable of sexual violation as well as men that they unwittingly perpetuate this taboo. This attitude perpetuates myths and stereotypes that are enormously damaging to victims who often suffer in silence for their entire lives because they have internalised these patriarchal tropes.

I would be interested to read any thoughts anyone has on this issue from a feminist perspective.

So I just googled to see about campaigns for victims to speak out. I found this from the US www.speakingout-csa.com/ and this from the UK ringing-cedars.wixsite.com/ournewearth/csa-rally-27-6-15

Note how neither of them talk about who is doing the abusing? Rather than derail discussions, why not follow these campaigns lead and talk to kids about what is abuse and what to do about it? Why do you feel the need to go out and specifically talk to kids about what abuse women might perpetrate on them?

Yes exactly what I was going to say choc.

Childline too is careful to focus on the abuse and not the sex of the abuser
www.childline.org.uk/info-advice/bullying-abuse-safety/abuse-safety/sexual-abuse/

What do you think the problem here is mouse?

Has anyone ever actually said that children who have been sexually abused by women don't count as victims? I suspect not.

They are simply stating that if we stop men committing these crimes, then we have solved 99% of the issue. Which means much fewer victims.

Your intentions on this forum are extremely transparent, by the way.

When women state that men are responsible for the vast majority of violence, sexual and otherwise, men are always very quick to point out it's not all men and that women do it too. The media and high profile campaigns rarely ever talk about the gender of abusers - unless it's someone specific, they are always referred to as people.

Therefore I would be happy to see a focus on the tiny number of female offenders just as soon as men stop complaining about any focus being put on their enormous rates of offending.

Interesting how a thread about women's domestic violence has also appeared.

I disagree that the gender of the perpetrator is irrelevant.

I would argue that there are often unique features to the experience of female perpetrated sexual abuse as well as sociocultural implications that require a specific focus. Victims are often vulnerable to cultural misconceptions such as 'it wasn't abuse if it was a woman', 'she was just being maternal and caring', 'boys are supposed to enjoy this', 'only males do this' etc etc. Arguably these are the reasons why female perpetrated CSA is under reported.

Conversely, I would argue that male perpetrated CSA has implications of its own that again require a specific focus. If a girl is abused by a man then the gender of the perpetrator is absolutely relevant, as I am sure you would all agree. And if a boy is molested by a man then there are potentially a whole other array of problems related to male identity that require a nuanced focus.

What are my intentions AyeAmarok?

Those are not cultural misconceptions that I recognise. Which culture are they prevalent in?

Do not be disingenuous. I have been molested by a woman and have encountered those misconceptions time and again - from men, women, counsellors, friends and loved ones.

I'm not engaging with you, mouse.

I have no interest in your straw man argument, and I question the motives of a person who registers on a website like this to post incessantly on the feminist board seemingly for the sole purpose of derailing a discussion, under the guise of a very transparent faux-concern for the victims of CSA committed by women, and accusing posters of saying things that they never said.

Play innocent all you like.

I'm not being disingenuous. They are not things I've heard widely said about female perpetrators. It's not a well known cultural phenomenon. I'm not denying that they were said to you.

Do you think that if a child disclosed that they were being abused by a woman today that they would get that response?

Do you think that if a child disclosed that they were being abused by a woman today that they would get that response?

Quite possibly, yes.

Who would they get that response from? Family members or professionals/people outside the family?

AyeAmarok you don't have to engage with me. This is my thread and if you engage it is because you have chosen to.

It's interesting that you claim to be about a focus on victims, but your thread title isn't that.

Potentially any of them. I have.

After all females get all sorts of negative responses when they report abuse. 'Boys will be boys', 'Were you leading him on? ' etc. There are lots of sexist, pernicious myths that manifest when women and girls report being sexually violated.

Wouldn't you say?

I would argue that there are often unique features to the experience of female perpetrated sexual abuse as well as sociocultural implications that require a specific focus.

You might argue that, but it seems that the charities, organisations and experts who are actively supporting victims right now, as Devi and I linked to above, don't share that opinion - at least as far as initial contact is concerned.

Yes, I'm sure that when it comes to individual counselling they'll talk more about the different aspects, but really, is that something that needs to be publicised? Will victims actually feel better by publicly discussing the things that might have been done to them? Sounds more like ghoulish interest to me, rather than victim support.

Sorry, I thought you wanted to talk about female abusers - not male ones as in your last post?

We all know that women and girls have all sorts of issues reporting assault - I thought you were suggesting that there were extra hurdles when they were reporting assault perpetrated by other women?

Do boys have the same responses when they report abuse by men?

I thought you were suggesting that there were extra hurdles when they were reporting assault perpetrated by other women?

No, just different ones. I want a world where every victim is able to overcome the social hurdles that prevent them from disclosing what happened to them. Where every evil, sick piece of filth who is prepared to consign a child to a life and death of torment for a twisted thrill can be brought to justice.

Do boys have the same responses when they report abuse by men?

They're probably often different again, I would imagine.

No, just different ones. I want a world where every victim is able to overcome the social hurdles that prevent them from disclosing what happened to them. Where every evil, sick piece of filth who is prepared to consign a child to a life and death of torment for a twisted thrill can be brought to justice.

That's a lot of words with no actual content. What, how, why?

It's really difficult to discuss this with you when you have no content in your posts.

OK.. so.. what's that got to do with your OP? We all agree with you there... but you wanted to talk about women I thought?