The effect of porn on teenage boys and young men

[DeviTheGaelet]

Did anyone else hear the section on R5 about porn addiction the other day? They spoke to a doctor who is looking into the defects of porn on men. A study in Italy found 40% of young men were having erectile issued, of those 60% were psychologically caused ( I think those were the stats).
The doctor suggested that watching porn during adolescence is training men to be aroused by purely visual stimuli and the visual stimuli are not realistic. As a result they are not being wired to find the smells and touch of actual sex arousing. As a result they are having election issues.
He described porn as "stunt sex" and said it was creating a generation of men who's sexual relationships were with their hand and a screen rather than another person.
I found it really interesting. We talk a lot on here about the harm porn causes women and girls but I've not heard so much about the impact on boys.
I think this should be discussed in PSHE in schools. Maybe this will be the personal impact many men need to see how harmful porn can be.

That's not consent, that's material coercion and illegal under most* regulators. I tend to judge those who exploit the inability of others to consent.

*All the ones I'm aware of.

I presented a thought experiment of my own upthread: If an exhibitionist made a video of themselves online, accessible to consenting adults, for the exhibitionists own sexual fulfilment, would you ban it?

Xeno

A ban on people filming and distributing pictures of themselves with no clothes on is impossible.

So you can still watch women being degraded in various ways

Would you actually, sit in a room with Nina Hartley (I see her name was not Gina) and tell her she was degrading herself ? How do you think she would feel about that ? How has she lessened the value of herself ?

Qwerty I'm going to quote Diana Russell again from this interview :

A.M.: How do you respond to people who point out that it is impossible to obtain a consensus on what is pornography versus what is erotica, that "one person's erotica is another person's pornography?"

D.R.: There is no consensus on the definitions of many phenomena. Rape is one example. Legal definitions of rape vary considerably in different states. Similarly, millions of court cases have revolved around arguments as to whether a killing constitutes murder or manslaughter. Lack of consensus should not automatically mean that pornography cannot be subject to opprobrium or legal restraint, or that we cannot examine its effects.

Claims that it is too hard to tell what is sexist and degrading material just sound to me like an excuse for men to continue to make and consume pornography.

I see we have a poster trying the "consent and agency" excuse for the consumption of porn. Both of these are a get out of jail free card for porn makers and consumers, rapists and misogynists. What they often seem to mean is "she was asking for it".

If a woman consents (and consent is a problematic enough concept that it merits a thread of its own) to a degrading and or abusive, sexist, violent, painful, dangerous, etc act being done with her body it does not magically make that act no longer one of degradation, abuse, sexism etc. It doesn't magically make it no longer painful or dangerous. Misogynists like to pretend that consent has magical powers. It doesn't.

Meph, the girl could have said no. An she was a legal adult. In fact, she didn't have to be a prostitute at all. So what's the problem eh? Just capitalism eh? Supply and demand?

And how do you know that the girls you see in porn videos are not girls just like that? You don't. Statistically, some of them are bound to be.

Verbal consent, without consideration of the context and the character of the people involved, counts for little.

Beach, to clarify:

Are you saying that certain forms of erotic material should be freely available online?

You're saying porn inherently misogynistic, and it isn't. Black people are oppressed with physical violence and enslavement, but physical violence and enslavement are not inherently racist. Racism is just expressed through violence among other ways. If black oppression ended tomorrow there would be still be people getting beaten up in the world.

Misogyny is expressed through pornography, but pornography is not inherently misogynist.

Erotica is just a label liberals put to what is, when it comes down to it, pornography.

Feminists have this odd idea that if the world were equal or matriarchal then there wouldn't be any porn - only lovely, fluffy innocuous 'erotica' (presumably either in black and white or lit by candles with some ambient music in the background) and with no dark or disturbing themes. That suggests a strange, and actually very essentialist, crypto-patriarchal understanding of female sexuality.

We either take a stand against it all, or none of it all. 'Erotica' should not be online for children to look at.

Meph, the girl could have said no. An she was a legal adult. In fact, she didn't have to be a prostitute at all. So what's the problem eh? Just capitalism eh? Supply and demand?

She was materially coerced, a recognised crime that is banned by those who regulate porn.

And how do you know that the girls you see in porn videos are not girls just like that? You don't. Statistically, some of them are bound to be.

By assessing the quality of the regulator. Statistically some of your clothing was produced by an underage child in a sweatshop, but you hope that regulators limit the amount.

Verbal consent, without consideration of the context and the character of the people involved, counts for little.

Which is why signed contracts, registered with a legal authority designed to limit or eliminate moral coercion, counts for so much.

How do you define 'material coercion'?

Is not having enough money to pay your college fees a basis for material coercion?

And you still haven't provided a response to my own thought experiment, when I've gone to so much effort responding to yours.

Exhibitionist, video online, accessed by those who choose to, for the exhibitionists sexual fulfillment: Ban it?

If you can choose extreme examples to try and prove your point, I possess the equal right to do the same.

Meph how can you hope that porn can be regulated around the world successfully, to the point where you can be happy that the chance of the woman involved being coerced is vanishingly unlikely?

Is not having enough money to pay your college fees a basis for material coercion?

Is a college degree equivalent to food and shelter?

Is not having enough money to pay your college fees a basis for material coercion?

Is a college degree equivalent to food and shelter?

How can you hope that porn can be regulated around the world successfully, to the point where you can be happy that the chance of the woman involved being coerced is vanishingly unlikely?

Personally, I advocate the end of the 'right' to privacy, which is merely protection for corruption, abuse and a guarantor of injustice for rape victims. I recognise this as a minority view.

That visceral sense of rejection you probably feel at my radical ideology is no different to the one I feel for prescriptive, oppressive attitude to sexual expression.

growapear nowhere on this thread have I said that women in porn are "degrading themselves". ( Which is a nasty misogynistic notion that invisibleizes the gendered nature of porn production and consumption and that of wider society).

The point being made is that pornography is degrading to women, all women and girls.

Hardly a subtle difference.

What are you wibbling on about now? What is the relevance of the "right to privacy" as you see it?

I was answering the question: How can you hope that porn can be regulated around the world successfully, to the point where you can be happy that the chance of the woman involved being coerced is vanishingly unlikely?

To clarify, my answer would be incredibly intrusive and pervasive ongoing individual surveillance.

Meph can you expand on what you mean by the removal of the right to privacy?

Please don't assume that you know what I'm thinking, you are not a mind reader.

How would that work?

Is a college degree equivalent to food and shelter?

Ok, so that's where the line is drawn is it? So if a woman is working in the sex industry for food and shelter then that should not be allowed? Right?

What if she's "freely consenting" as a prostitute or making porn films because she's addicted to drugs and can't get enough money for her fix any other way? As is very often the case? Drugs aren't a material need. Coercion isn't always a simple thing. Especially if the people exploiting her are also facilitating her access to the drugs.

The point being made is that pornography is degrading to women, all women

Women direct and star in porn. Given your statement it is not possible to logically argue that the women either directing or acting in a porn film are not degrading themselves since "porn degrades all women"

You were the one who used the word degrading - it is a very unpleasant word, which is why i quoted it back it you.

Beachcomber, thanks for your posts. They have been very helpful.

I agree that is a sensible distinction between pornography and erotica.

Growapear, they are doing it within a patriarchal social structure. That really does matter.

Qwerty I think you are attributing a different definition of erotica to my views than the one I have given.

I will try to clarify my position. Firstly I only quoted Diana Russell on erotica because I think her definition of it is useful in an analysis of what pornography is and does and what it is not.

I'm trying hard to think of an example of erotica and I'm finding it really hard because sexism is so pervasive in human interactions and the things we produce.

I am not defending what gets called erotica and as I said upthread, what gets called erotica is generally actually pornography.

venus

So it's the old "they don't understand what they are doing" argument ?

growapear do you think that people make decisions and hold beliefs in a vacuum free from any influence at all from other people?