a question from my daughter aged 12

[Janx]

Can you think of any films where two women are having conversations that are not about men?

Not a movie but Rizzoli and Isles (American cop show) has two female protagonists, both of whom are not dependent on men and are successful women (and also very funny).

Frozen?

bechdeltest.com

Try here...

You need the Bechdel Test Movie List.

Pitch Perfect is a great example. Guys are incidental to the story line. I watched this with a friend who explained about the Bechdel test. You can't stop judging stuff by this once you're familiar with it!

I watched the new Star Wars movie and I think there was one (one!) conversation between women in the whole film!

The scene from stepmom where Julia Roberts and Susan Sarandon are talking about the future of the children and the mom says something like I am their past, you are their future.

Thanks - will pass that on to her....have just seen Hidden Figures which is about women working on maths on the NASA space programme with had some maths conversations!

In fact that other one with Susan Sarandon where they drive off a cliff?

Practical Magic. An entire film where 2 independent women talk to each other and have no need for men

Rizzoli & Isles is brilliant & loved by both our dc, ds(15) & dd(12). It's one programme (although a bit gruesome in places, murder storylines) that I have felt completely at ease with them watching from a femininist pov. Strong male role models too but the central characters are 2 strong, independent women.

Sorry, meant strong male characters, not role models

Thelma and Louise

The Devil wears Prada, strangely enough.

Bridesmaids

Another non film - Buffy was my teenage icon, the outfits have dated dreadfully which is half the fun, also the Gilmore Girls.

Why is tv so much better at this than films?

Well Ghostbusters (2016 version) of course, certainly not the original.

But they are few and far between. Faith, yes Rogue One only just squeaks through the Bechdel test - and the lack of speaking (and non-speaking) parts played by women compares very unfavourably with The Force Awakens.

Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? !!!!

The Hunger Games!

Katniss has scenes with: her mum, Prim, Rue, Effie, Coin, Johanna, Mags and Cressida, and they're only rarely talking about men. I'm sure there's more I've forgotten. There's one scene in the fourth movie where it is all women discussing battle tactics, and it is brilliant, but then they wreck it by having a bloke come up with the answer they go with. So close! But overall, the movies are the biggest Bechdel test pass I've seen in a long time.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QIJRim7z8s0

This is the scene I'm talking about.

I haven't watched it in years, but does Cagney & Lacey count?

It's probably horribly dated, but if I recall the single one enjoys a full sex life with no guilt, and the married one has all the usual stress of having kids and a full-on job, but her husband actually does as much with the kids as her because you have to if your wife's a cop. Plus,, they're 2 women working in a tough environment who take no shit.

I remember watching Stepmom when I was home sick one day. at first I thought it was a typical romcom, but trying to be a bit 'edgy' by being about a second marriage. Then it gradually develops so that it's more about the women and their roles. It has some stereotypes about the whole 'women are mothers and that defines them' but it also deals with some hard facts. If I remember right, (SPOILER ALERT) Julia Roberts loses her job because she has to look after the kids and can't put in the hours needed at work. That's so true, and something that the whole 'lean in' philosophy just doesn't deal with.

Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe

Colour Purple

Gone with the wind

Actually, the whole detective genre, although riddled with stereotypes, does pretty well. The focus is on the mystery, not romance, and there are several female detectives such as Miss Marple or other pairs (wasn't Rosemary & Thyme or something one) which have worked well.

TV is better because it's cheaper to take risks, it is also episodic so tweaks can be made if required.