Biological gender!!??

[Velvetdarkness]

The kool aid has been well and truly drunk. This is a post in a group I'm in on Facebook called Curly Girls: conditioner only washing group

Biological gender?!?! Wtaf?

And so many supportive responses. Apparently someone was asked "are you a woman?" So I assume they didn't look like one.

I'd be out of there. I'm lucky in that I don't have to go along with any of this.

Biological gender is just a way of saying sex (but using 12 more letters)

Though I note that the place you quote is exclusionary of those born intersex.

Biological gender? Are they misusing the word gender instead of sex or is this female/male brain rubbish?

You are more likely to meet someone with six fingers than someone who is genuinely intersex - the statistics are that low.

It's yet another example of someone's using gender when they mean sex. I get infuriated when people talk about gender reveal parties when they mean sex. I think people see "gender" as being a less coarse term than "sex".

I think people see "gender" as being a less coarse term than "sex".

I'm convinced of this. I'm absolutely sure that this is all about Gender Education (The Goodies) or 'Sex?' 'Occasionally' (Mind Your Language).

You are about three times more likely to meet someone with DSD (ie intersex) than someone trans (though the size of the trans population is less well known).

Assuming you are counting all forms of DSD, that is, not limiting only to the one genital manifestation (old definition).

Yes re intersex, I read something published last year that said 3% of the population (taking various biological markers as indication of sex, not just genitals) were in some way biologically intersex.

Depends how you are defining trans.

If you include everyone who is non binary or agender, genderfluid etc and also don't get hung up on "presentation" then there are very large numbers of trans people.

The bit if that I find oddest is the term 'assigned as female'. Surely unless you are intersex and there's a decision to be made you are not assigned female; you are female? It makes it sound like being categorised as a particular sex is something that was done to you, and not a straightforward statement based on your genitals.

It isn't a straightforward choice based on genitals, though that can be part of the input into decision making.

And yes, usually someone decided in which gender to raise an intersex child. Surgical modification to narrow the differences between typical genitalia of the chosen sex and the actual presentation might or might not be recommended.

Assuming of course that there is physical manifestation in infancy at all.

I was in that group but I've now left. Fuck that shit. It's like in the Mrs Gloss Facebook group - every time a trans posts in there, the members fall over themselves to be right-on and tell them how gorgeous they look with fabulous legs etc. And most of the time they just look like a 50 year old bloke in a badly fitting frock and I'm tempted to ask if the other posters are blind, thick or both.

Yes, it's all emperor's new clothes, isn't it!

Viking you reckon that for general people, I mean most of the people there are, in the world, and who don't have obvious intersex conditions at birth, sexing a human baby is NOT straightforward and there has to be input (from who?) into the decision making?

So your view is that humans are not in fact, generally speaking, a sexually dimorphic species?

I also don't think it's a good idea to mix trans people up with intersex people either - they aren't the same thing at all.

I often wonder with it being so hard to differentiate between those who can impregnate and those who can become pregnant, with no sure way of telling who is which, how the human race has managed to be so successful. It defies logic.

Then you get these super-weird coincidences like the Chibok schoolchildren where they took the ones who had been arbitrarily labelled "girls" for no good reason and what is really weird is that there were reports that almost all of them were pregnant. It's odd. You'd almost think there was some way of telling which sorts of humans are the sorts of ones who are likely to get pregnant. And that the boko haram people who took them were aware of it. Of course science tells us this is not the case so it must have just been some kind of freak coincidence.

70s

The incidence of intersex is about the same as the incidence of red hair in USA. And although most people are XX or XY, it is not invariable.

And no, it might not be discerned until puberty.

And I'm not "mixing them up" I was pointing out that they are omitted from the linked list of options.

The only time they should feature in countering transphobia is a reminder that the rules about testosterone levels in athletes presenting as female were drawn up for intersex people.

Depends on how intersex is defined and counted, though. I've heard bizarre and all encompassing definitions that include PCOS and very minor physical abnormalities.

Here is just one critical consideration of the figures for intersex, for example. This article draws attention to the fact that definitions of intersex are changing, not constant and contested.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12476264

Why does a Facebook group about hair care even NEED such an aggressive statement about trans people and transphobia?

As for intersex people, I find this just muddies the waters of the trans debate and is fairly irrelevant, really. I think people make too many assumptions about what it means to be intersex and the gender identities of intersex people.

If a person is intersex and it isn't discerned until puberty, then its fair to say their condition is "mild" and they're probably perfectly happy with their gender identity.

Why does a Facebook group about hair care even NEED such an aggressive statement about trans people and transphobia?

Because they want to show how inclusive and right-on they are. Why is there now eye roll emoji?

Ah, so virtue signalling, basically?

But of course!

And I'm on the makeup group referenced upthread too and the amount of fawning over the trans who post on there is ridiculous. A while ago a bloke posted saying he wanted to look like a feminine version of him and then fell over themselves to give him advice and then before you knew it, he'd been kicked out of the group as he'd been messaging underage members there! I saw that coming at the start but clearly no one else did.

Mathew Wright is discussing gender issues, especially the huge rise in kids tomorrow if anyone is interested. Was coming across a bit gender critical this morning. Brian McFadden has drowned in the koolaid but talked about Bruce Jenner's inspiration journey - no mention of Caitlyn. The woman guest today expressed concern with the pushing of gender stereotypes on kids - so might catch it tomorrow.