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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No 7 advert. Not wearing makeup is presenting a false version of yourself?!

45 replies

QueenLaBeefah · 03/12/2016 17:54

m.youtube.com/watch?v=f1hMx_dx1nE

I'm not sure if anyone has seen this but it is a makeup advert which seems to be implying that is is a feminist statement to choose to wear makeup and that to not wear make up is a presentation a false version of yourself.

What a load of crap.

OP posts:
MollyHuaCha · 05/12/2016 10:29

It's nonsense, masquerading as something feminist (it's not). I read one of her books and didn't like that either. The only thing good is the fact that the woman is not 18 and size 6 Wink

Lorelei76 · 05/12/2016 12:33

is it me or is the sound on the ad really bad, with the music getting louder at the points where her voice gets softer?

anyhow, the first thing that struck me about this - I wonder if sellers are starting to panic about sales going down if not wearing make up or not dyeing hair etc becomes popular?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 05/12/2016 13:29

We (previous posters) seem to know who she is

The comment "The woman in the advert" does not suggest knowing who she is. The opening post does not suggest to me any indication of who she is - nor that there was any knowledge that she has been saying similar things for years now.

It's quite funny -I saw the advert and thought to myself, good for her - bet there will be a rant about it on FWR.

OurBlanche · 05/12/2016 14:03

Yes Lass.. which is why I said Previous Posters (pp) not OP!!!

But I do most humbly apologise for not having written chapter and verse on what I know about Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, from TED talks to make up adverts, prior to commenting!

EvenTheWind · 05/12/2016 20:38

And I saw it and thought, "Bet Lass will love that, as it chimes with her own views on makeup and dress, though of course the author identifies as feminist and Lass does not."

Xmas Wink
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 05/12/2016 21:12

I thought what she said in the advert and the pieces in Vogue and Elle made sense.

Yes Lass.. which is why I said Previous Posters (pp) not OP!!!

Not sure what your point is. The OP didn't seem to know who she is, nor did the another previous poster who simply described her as " the woman in the advert" At least 2 posters seemed to have no idea she is despite her speaking at length on feminism and publishing a book called Why We should All be Feminists.

Still never mind you can write her off as the wrong sort of feminist.

EvenTheWind · 05/12/2016 23:22

I submit, your honour, that calling her the woman in the advert might be a way out of checking the spelling of her name!

No one has written her off as the wrong sort of feminist; that'll be a straw woman. It is possible for one feminist to disagree with another, y'know, without either of them writing off the other.

Obviously only when we are on a break from disagreeing with you, for which there is a strict rota system Xmas Wink

OurBlanche · 06/12/2016 09:50

Still never mind you can write her off as the wrong sort of feminist Have my first WTF???!!!!

And Star Star Star Star Star for reading that far between the lines!

Xmas Smile
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/12/2016 12:58

By "you" I meant FWR generally. Still it lived up to my expectations. I knew as soon as I saw the advert there would a thread on here ranting about how awful it was.

It's nonsense, masquerading as something feminist (it's not) and similar.

I submit, your honour, that calling her the woman in the advert might be a way out of checking the spelling of her name!

Oh please. And even if that were true , how offensive- "she's got a funny foreign name I can't spell"

EvenTheWind · 06/12/2016 13:21

Ah, Lass. You're so much fun.

OurBlanche · 06/12/2016 13:40
Xmas Grin
quencher · 06/12/2016 15:19

Thanks for the laugh while I gather my brain cells to carefully think about this ad and how it translate to those who don't know her work. Grin

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/12/2016 17:32

Fun?
I think your excuse that failing to spend 10 seconds finding out the spelling of her name justifies reducing a prominent female writer to "the woman in the advert" is offensive.

Still the thread lived up to expectations.

EvenTheWind · 06/12/2016 17:35

I used her name, Lass, the same as you.

My judgement of you as fun is based on years of your posts, don't worry. Of course the thread lived up to your expectations. Don't we always disappoint you?

quencher · 06/12/2016 23:39

Ok, am going to get the pleasantries out of the way.
I think it's great that an ad actually featured a woman of her age.(not Meant in an offensive way but different to usual focus on younger models. it's refreshing seeing someone different with a different skin tone too). Not only that, she is neither Beyoncé nor Thandie newton or made to made look more European, which is great. (Yes and Lupita did an makeup ad too, how lucky are we, joke intended for anyone who would have pointed that out). I think she is great writing and refreshing to have an African woman whose is younger with appreciated and respected voice by the public.

Down to the nitty gritty and dissecting her in relation to that ad.
Personally am on edge when it comes to advocating use of makeup for women's everyday use as a sign of what it is to be feminine. Am also, conflicted by the fact that wearing makeup is seen as diminishing factor to an accomplished woman in the western world or differently in some places Africa. (What she didn't mention about African women in Africa is that wearing make is sign of wealth. That's is why she said the more accomplished a woman the more likely they are to wear makeup. The difference between a village woman and wealthy one. ) the makeups fundamental use is for beautifying the woman.
The bottom line is, if we look at the animal and bird kingdom, some of the animals, some of the sex grooms more than the other. They tend to display colours, vibrancy in their demeanour and look healthier. The women in our gender seems to have taken makeup as a form of grooming to attract a mate.
(The ads in our media tends to focus on women who are at the prime of their youth and childbirth years. While men's grooming is focused on older men and seen as a necessity that adds to their status and importance as human beings.)
It's not from the beginning of humanity but cultures have come up with ways that portrays this. It's not just makeup but it can include; piercings, scarring the skin with designs, hairstyles, cloths, shoes, bags etc. We can all claim that these things offer us a sense of identity and when we don't dress the way we want it offers a false one to people. High heels used to be won by men. Sometime in our history it became part of what it means to be a sex symbol for women to elongate their feet and legs. To allow women to stand tall with confidence in their famine sexuality, a way that they can be viewed by ogled at .

To Adichie, what is this sense of identity she gets from wearing makeup? When we feel confident, it's always because we feel or a sense that we have met a standard which is required or that we are capable of meeting that standard. Self doubt is for those who are not as confident and lack self belief. To have a belief that she gets more confidence from maker negates her point of saying she is happy with the way she looks at her self when the maker is off. I say this because she did make that emphasis for the sense of self and who she really is. When we see her without makeup, we are not really looking at the real her but a lesser version of her self. Isn't she contracting her self or is she trying to make her self believe what she saying as true.

Wearing make up is acquired. We are not born warring makeup but it's something her mother instilled in her from a very young age. She does describe her mother's insistence on looks and how she should portray herself as a woman to the world. When she become a feminist or decide to not follow what society said makeup meant, she ditched it and decided to be free from this constrain that is makeup. The resistance and freedom she thought would come from not wearing makeup was stifling her ability of expression. It's part of being feminine but it's one that she accepts expresses her self more than when she is a free woman from the face of sexism. ( my word not hers)

To add to this, what sense of self is she trying to portray? I would say that it lies with the comment she got from the man at an airport in Lagos. She might be a feminist but I think she let a man and societal value and judgement affect her way of thinking. She might disagree with me or not but that is what I think and this is why.
First of all, she accepts that the mans statement is true and this did make her look at herself differently. She wants to come a cross as older (her words) and not a young girl. What I deduced from that conversation and the actions afterwards is that old age or being older is associated with wiseness and respect in most part of Africa (which is true). Adichie and the man both say that makeup portrays maturity and this separates you from what would be considered inexperienced and unwise. As a writer she wants to be listened to and respected (one of her recent comments is regarding the sort of respect writers like her have compared to other types of celebrities and what they have done. She thinks they people like her deserve more respect and appreciation than what they are getting now).
While in the western world makeup is associated with youth, beauty and good health and not being wise, educated and accomplished in areas that is appreciated by society.
The conclusion is that she is a woman who is not as confident as she thinks she is but a woman trying to meet societal standard Inevitably. It would not surprise me if this conversation was part of why she wrote Americana.

quencher · 07/12/2016 00:17

Is there someone who knows when this view changed for ms Adichie, or when she made it public what her views and thought are about makeup?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/12/2016 23:53

I used her name, Lass, the same as you

I was referring to your ridiculous excuse for the poster who referred to her as "the woman in the advert "

My judgement of you as fun is based on years of your posts, don't worry

Years? How surprising, given a name search brings up no posts from you earlier than the end of November 2016. Bit underhand making remarks like that whilst hiding behind a name change.

Quencher She started writing about this around 2014, partly because she felt she had to change her appearance when she was in America due to the judgemental attitudes she experienced.

OurBlanche · 09/12/2016 08:59

It would not surprise me if this conversation was part of why she wrote Americana.

Speaking of which, I'd love to read Amy Tan's take on Americanah. Another ethnic author writing a book that simply must have some educational aspect, some explanation of their culture, be Afro-American, Asian- American literature rather than just American literature!

What is wrong in a world where that needs to be the case?

quencher · 11/12/2016 11:57

Lass thanks!
If she started writing about makeup around 2014, she went to America when she was 19 and she is now 39. That's almost 20 years between America and which ever places she visited and lived.

When that advert came out, the first thing that came to mind was "flawless". Not because of her words being used but capitalising on the success of it. Its not because she wasn't great before. I do believe that it has spread her words beyond the book lovers, feminist and ted talk watchers and followers.

I asked for the date because I wanted to workout whether her writing about makeup actually came about because of the song. Reason being, it's a song about beauty and how you wake up in the morning and whether you like what you see, "flawless or not ". The joke is, all the people dancing in the video had full on makeup.
In general not very many people wake up flawless with full on makeup that doesn't look smudgy. Not very many people keep makeup on unless it was after a night out and you couldn't be asked to wipe it off. If do keep it on to wake up in the morning flawless then you have a big problem.

I would have assumed she did study this video to see whether it was appropriate for her words to appear in the middle. How would she answer those who would ask her about the song and whether she agrees with the message. In the process of doing this, she would have to understand beauty, makeup and its influence. Question her use or not use rather than just follow what any other feminist writer would have said before her.

I think for number 7 saw an opportunity and jumped on it. It's a good opportunity that benefits both. It does give a different perspective to the way we look at make up.

If I was to make my mind up on her stance, I would say that money, respect and popularity made an influence in her decision. Smile

Lessthanaballpark · 12/12/2016 01:45

Isn't it just blindingly obvious that the reason women feel more confident wearing makeup is because we've been bombarded with images of beautiful women as desirable and feel we fail in comparison.

Wear makeup all you want but don't be daft and make up some crap about how it fulfills you. It's stupid to suggest we are unaffected by society.

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