Girls aren't put off sports at schools by boys - says a man...

[OlennasWimple]

Telegraph article here quoting the head of Latymer Upper School, saying that girls in co-ed schools aren't put off playing sport by their male peers.

Leaving aside that most children aren't rowing or playing cricket at their school, can I just point out that he clearly has zero appreciation of what playing sport as a teenage girl is really like? Boobs developing and being very painful (or no boobs developing, and being very obviously lacking in unflattering PE kit). Wobbly legs suddenly exposed in short PE skirts. Always having to play the boys sports (like basketball) rather than the girls sport (like netball), when playing together. Being beaten by most boys in most sports, because even scrawny boys who haven't yet had their growth spurt tend to be stronger and faster than teenage girls.

I'm hoping that he thinks he is genuinely sticking up for girls, and pointing out that it isn't all about impressing the boys, but it jsut smacks of He Doesn't Get It, doesn't it?

I've just had a lightbulb moment about ds's school- I have often wondered why they use the indoor gym so much when they have so much outdoor space. They obviously alternate girls and boys inside and outside......

But 50% of UK Beijing medallists!

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9446407/Team-GB-chief-dominance-of-public-schools-is-unacceptable.html

EVen - my Dh runs a small software company. 32 employees. Currnetly 21 are female. There's equal opportunity for both sexes, just some choose not to do it.

It was the other girls that put me off P.E. so bloody judgy and horrible.

Is that so? Based on one example?

FTSE director stats mean anything to you?

That was sarkier than I meant, Art, but I still think anecdotes aren't enough.

I think there is data somewhere (and expect there are Mnetters who know exactly where) and I remember media reporting that it's a proportion at top level. A quick google turned up this:

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/aug/22/third-britain-medallists-rio-olympics-private-schools-sutton-trust

It's skewed by which sports, of course. For example, rowers tend to come from private schools, as not that many take it up later and make the top levels, and not that many state schools row.

Others, where competing in the teen years is important, tend to have a lot of representation from private schools too. And a lot of rugby players are from the independent sector, though the club route is also every strong.

OTOH, it can be quite different in in-Olympic sports as for example footballs are overwhelmingly state educated (or football academy educated, which I suppose in theory is non-state schooling, but not a private school in the usual sense).

Punching well above their weight, then.

I feel that I should admit here that DS1 attends a (single-sex) independent school on a sports scholarship... There was no competition when he looked around the mixed school who also offered a bursary, (and where I was keener for him to attend). Their site is a lot smaller - as they also are at the independent girls schools locally. It's the ancient, traditional schools with large endowments and which were founded before the towns that rose up around them that have the best sports facilities. And most of those are all-boys schools.

Boys dominance of the playground is an issue as is inappropriate PE kit. Why (with the exception of sports bras) can't PE kit be unisex? And what's wrong with longer shorts/leggings/trousers?
Anyway - I have to agree about the other girls as when I was at school in the 90's unless you where elite, it was seen as undesirable to be seen to be athletic or interested in fitness in any other capacity other than weight loss.

I actually had to pretend to be seen as body conscious (in a bad way) so I didn't stick out like a sore thumb since I do not have any hang ups on my body unlike most others (I still don't). This is not a good environment for anyone, even those who DO want to train.

Even - well no, that's just the example he knows figure on. But he says it's around 50/50 when at meetings all over London. I also have own company. It's 50/50 here also ( but only 8 staff atm). I just don't see your 'men only world' in our daily lives. Like I said, growing up at single sex schools girls were always encouraged to do better or equal, never to let anyone ahead due to gender.

Growapear - as someone who writes scientific software from home with a DD applying to engineering courses, I'd be happy to discuss the STEM issue but it needs a thread of its own.

DD's parent teacher evening last week. Her computing teacher made a comment about her needing to be a bit more vocal in class about how good she is. I suggested that there is a social penalty for girls who are good at science and maths subjects.

"Oh No" says male CS teacher. "We don't have that sort of behaviour at this school" Then had the good grace to tail off into silence as DD and I both sat back, crossed our arms and raised an eyebrow at the same time. She also made the point that, because of timetabling, she does PE with her CS class. This is predominantly boys, many of who are not too pleased at being constantly bested by a girl. This can be taken out on her in PE.

not too pleased at being constantly bested by a girl that in itself is an issue in my opinion. Says a lot that these boys get annoyed at specifically being outperformed by a girl whereas another boy doing better would be bearable.

Similar is the whole "you play/kick/throw like a girl" or even just "you're such a girl" being used as an insult.

I was put off school sports by communal showers, bitchy teachers and having to run around a chuffing hockey pitch in the snow in a sodding gym slip

Me too with added factor that I simply found sport boring and pointless, still do. Our PE lessons were segregated from at least Secondary 1 (age 11 /12) possibly earlier.

Absolutely was not the presence of boys which put me off.

TBH all I can infer from the Latymer case is that girls (and probably boys too) may not get put off sports if they're lucky enough to attend well funded schools which do sports well.

Yy re clothing.

If not required to be skin tight for safety, tracksuit bottoms or long loose shorts should be fine for PE. Not sure of current uniform convention on this.

Separate but related: Women and girls out running (cheap training for many sports) can suffer from comments from street harrasers.

Well I loved my PE teacher even though I wasn't sporty. She infected us all with getting out and being fit. She also recognised I was assaulted by my father and let me off PE for three weeks for my bruises to heal - that was back in the 70s and she was brilliant in the way she handled it. She was never judgemental, rolled eyes regarding periods and organised sports for those doing O Levels on a need to do basis - I loved that.

I agree on clothing. Has made me think about how the shorts which are part of the PE kit at my school are considerably shorter than those which are the PE kit at my brothers' boys' schools. Also makes me think of how short the shorts which are marketed to girls from such a young age are though that's another issue.

Street harassment is definitely an issue in terms of physical activity and girls/women too though it's not rare anyway. I've never gone running but I have a friend who stopped because of this.

My children - 1 male, 1 female both attend the same co-ed state grammar school and I can honestly say I've seen no bias towards boys (or indeed girls). The school has a roughly 50:50 split between boys and girls.

PE lessons are mixed sex but games lessons are single sex.

Boys play football, hockey, rugby, cricket

Girls - football, rugby (contact), hockey, netball and rounders (although there is also an option for girls cricket).

Both girls and boys row although train on the water on different days.

The school has a reasonably high number of children who are selected to play at international, national and county / south of England level.

My daughter (a netball player) certainly doesn't seem intimidated by boys and doesn't modify her activities due to their presence. She wears a skort and depending on the weather leggings (there are tracksuit bottoms but neither girls nor boys tend to wear them favouring base layers). She certainly doesn't seem body conscious as she will wear the skort for most of the day sometimes depending on timetable/ matches and then wears it home rather then getting changed.

The only thing I can really think of which was a bit off was that the girls were originally told they were playing touch Rugby - they complained and so play contact. The deputy head played Rugby internationally and coaches the senior boys team (the DH is female) and all the boys (and girls) have huge respect for her (she is a history teacher btw).

I think it's great that it's co-ed - they have respect for each other's sports - e.g. Cheerleading where there are a number who compete internationally- my son admires them as athletes whereas in an all boys school he might dismiss cheerleading as not a proper sport.

What does make the difference is the culture of the school and the high calibre of PE staff - they have international players coaching in rowing and hockey in particular. The head of PE is a woman.

So yes I would agree with the article.

I went to an all girls school. We didn't need boys to put us off either. It was very uncool to be into sport. Somehow childish.

It was the communal changing room and being forced to have a shower after that's put me off although you could get out of the showering if you were on your period - teacher would note it down-humiliating
The outfit ( we wore a sport skirt with shorts ) was restrictive and it just wasn't cool to be into PE
We had seperate pe from the boys
Wish we'd done something else other than hockey/netball/tennis tho