Can we discuss the selfie troll dad?

[Velvetdarkness]

I've seen this guy before and tbh I thought it was funny as I saw it being a comment and mockery of the whole selfie Instagram culture.

Now it's been posted on a FB group I'm on and the (mostly student) women on there are up in arms about his misogyny.

So. Is it?

His daughter is fine with it btw.

Personally I think these types of poses buy into and support the patriarchy and so I'm not very up for defending them but I wonder if I'm missing something and ought not to find it funny?

You're all very knowledgeable so here I am to discuss and learn.

Link: www.boredpanda.com/dad-recreates-daughter-selfie-cassie-martin-chris-martin-part2/

Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves.

Spot on. How many women, when they have sex, are thinking more about how they appear to their partner than about what they are feeling or admiring what their partner looks like?

There have been similar (ish) photos where people replace the 'sexy' women in adverts with men doing the same poses. What does everybody think of those?

I know it's different in that in his case the subject is taking the photo herself, but the fact that sexualised poses are seen as normal and aspirational for women but not for men is an issue, I think. It come back to the male gaze.

How many teenage boys posy selfies where they are trying to look sexy? Wearing tight trousers and posing so their crotch is obvious to the viewer? Standing in poses that are linked to sexual positions (e.g the bending over / sticking your bum out one that is common for women)? It may happen, but I've not seen any.

That's not to say that teenage boys don't want to look good and be attractive to girls, but how it is expressed is very different.

On a side note, I've recently started working alongside young people (21/22) amd it's startling how little the women look like their Facebook photos!

The photos bear almost no relation to what they look like in real life. The men, however, look the same in the photos as they do in reality. This makes me think that the standards that young women judge their photos by (and the standards they are judged against by others, I imagine) are very different to the standards applied to the young men.

I think the photos done by Jim C. Hines are hilarious. Of course, he is parodying pictures that no real woman posed for, because no real woman would even be able to contort her spine that way.

Perhaps young women should more often stop and think "What would my dad look like wearing this/doing this?", because if the answer is that he'd look utterly ridiculous, then perhaps that is because it caters to the male gaze.

As long as the woman herself has no problem with it, I don't see why I should get angry on her behalf. She'll know best why her dad does it.

He did parodies of his son's selfies too. I think he was poking fun at the whole selfie culture. Obvs the media pick up on middle aged man posing like a teenage girl because of the incongruity.

Selfies come entirely under aesthetics for me. I don't think wether someone takes selfies or not reveals anything particularly crucial about them.

Also give the tabloid media any occasion to print pictures of remotely sexualised teenagers and they'll be there like white on rice...

I've also seen the images of men in poses women are regularly seen doing in advertising and thought that made a good point in quite an amusing way, that the initial reaction is to think it looks ridiculous but then to question why men doing it is ridiculous and women doing it is normal. The point that teenage boys don't post selfies to the same extent or in the same way teenage girls do is also a good one and says a lot. I know many girls do take numerous selfies, mess around with filters and choose the "best" one. I definitely think Spartacus and others have made a good point about the male gaze and how we see ourselves and want ourselves seen. Even though I don't really "do" selfies I'm sure I do it too, I think it's really difficult not to.

I think men/boys posing in the way this father did can be useful only if it's not used to mock girls (let's all laugh at girls spending their time posing and taking selfies like this, never mind they often do it because of what they're made to feel their worth is) but instead to make people wonder why it seems comical when men do it and what that says about how society expects women to be presented.

WomanWithAltitude I hadn't thought about that with the sort of "dumb"/vacant/almost submissive pose and how "desirable" that's viewed as. That sexualised poses take this form and are seen as standard even if they're ostensibly for ourselves/friends is an issue.

Sorry for the long post and hope it made some sense, was sort of typing what I was thinking as it came to me!

Womanwithtitude - that's really interesting that the young adult females you are working with don't look anything like their FB selfie pics. How do they look different in real life?

In the pictures the majority of them look perfect, glamorous, flawless skin, slim symmetrical faces etc. The photos are also very posed. (There are exceptions to this, but this is case for the vast majority)

In real life they look, well, real. With spots and scars and wonky features like everyone else. Don't get me wrong, they look perfectly lovely in real life, but not like their photos.

I think it's a combination of filters and apps which people use (you can slim a face, enlarge eyes, remove blemishes etc).

That's a shame. Though my friends and I do look like our Facebook photos (I've never asked anyone if I do but since I don't alter them beyond sometimes generally improving the colours of the whole photograph) and to that extent it's not something I've encountered with girls I've met. Most I know have photos of themselves out somewhere rather than selfies.

It's not across the board, but it is the majority.

I was amazed, because when I look at photos of me and my friends when I was that age (uni and just after), they are all pretty scruffy (and there are very few photos in the first place, not dozens/hundreds). Mind you, that was back in the dark ages when you had to get a film developed if you wanted photos - you didn't have the option to retake or edit them, or even see them before they were printed.

The other thing that has struck me about my new colleagues is the level of grooming they do even on 'normal' days (i.e just for work, not for going out). It's sad to see that young women now feel obliged to wear far more make up etc than my generation did. From what I've seen, I assume that is the standard now, and young women are viewed as unusual if they don't conform? I don't blame them, but it makes me sad for them if that's the case.

I'd say the number of photographs is probably down to how easy it is to take and upload them now compared to when you were at university, the elder of my two brothers is only 14 and already has plenty of him. I can also only go by girls I know but there are plenty of un-posed, scruffy, lounging about type photographs on most of my friends' accounts. That having been said appearance is something we're all conditioned to think about and I can't deny I do it too.

I think make up is something girls are assumed to be obsessed with from a young age so it's sort of self-fulfilling almost, especially when combined with how image obsessed a society we live in when it comes to girls and women and how we're told we need to appear for approval. I do think not being "into" make up and spending time on it is viewed as unusual (I've had that kind of reaction from an aunt and uncle before). Not sure I'm phrasing any of this too well as I'm probably a bit confused about it myself.

Oh yes, sorry I wasn't clear but I totally agree re: why people take so many now. I'm the same - I take more photos than I took 15 years ago because it's easy. And you always have a camera with you nowadays (your phone).

And I agree that women are conditioned to think about their appearance - I do it too, far more than I would like. Intellectually, I know that my looks don't particularly matter, but being able to genuinely believe it, deep down, is another kettle of fish.

What struck me was the gulf between 'expected' levels of grooming 15 years ago compared to today - it has really increased.

Very much so!

I wish I didn't do it and do value myself for so much more, but as you say, being able to convince yourself looks don't really matter is difficult. It's a big shame that the expected levels/effort women are expected to reach with make up/general grooming has increased even in such a short period of time, social media must have added to that, I'd have thought. Constant bombardment of images of women sexualised and looking a certain way which we see from such a young age, it's a really difficult environment to feel your looks aren't important (or even the most important thing about you) in.

At least he is taking an interest in his children's life. With regards to bullying, It would be if she didn't enjoy it. How do you guys knows it wasn't a joke between them to start off with? Maybe he took some showed his kids and they went with it together.

the very first one was quite funny but so many? it's rather obsessive and inappropriate.