The Glass ceiling, really?

[Pizanfan]

I have lurked here for a while, but havn't really had summoned the courage to post until now (I have noticed a lot of new posters asking for people to be nice, or kind etc).

I can't seem to keep this to myself anymore, and my OH dismisses my attempts to bring the subject up...

Hillary Clinton, playing the righteous feminist, and building a campaign on 'love' but knowing nothing but hate. I keep hearing prominant feminists talk about her being the great hope, but her history, actions, and words are so anti feminist I get frustrated when I hear this twaddle!

Apologies if you are a fan, I mean no offence, I just feel like this issue is going to burn me up inside if I don't get it out, and I suppose I am hoping for reasons I am in part blind to any good she is doing, or maybe even some agreement from people here.

Not the greatest way to introduce myself to this section (It is very intimidating here btw), but rant over, please let me know if i'm reading too much into this issue.

Thank you

Sorry, off topic but has anyone seen on the news that, if she wins, her victory speech in NY will be delivered under an actual glass ceiling?

Puzan what have you been reading? You seem to have some quite odd ideas.

Hillary Clinton's campaign adverts actually haven't been character assassinating. They've been fine, either individuals talking about why they'd like to elect her or clips of Trump talking (which make the point all on their own)

As for Nicola Sturgeon "disrupting Scottish life with her look at me routine" you do realise that she is First Minister for Scotland? That she's busy running the country? Whether or not you think there should be a second Independence Referendum it was a key part of the SNP manifesto at the last election. The Scottish people voted for the SNP on that basis. It's hardly something she made up for a bit of attention one day.

I've not been particularly keen on Hillary Clinton but I think women are judged far more harshly than men (in all ways but specifically politics here), criticised for things a male candidate never would be and expected to adhere to impossible standards.

You don't know what you get with Trump, he's not honest in the slightest, he's a manipulative, abusive, bigoted bully who lies and cheats constantly. Yet he's seen as a "straight talker" and Hillary Clinton as "dishonest". If politicians such as Trump or Boris Johnson here were female but acted in a similar manner, they'd never have had any success whatsoever.

'"Firstly, I need to explain that oversimplified memes are a little embarrassing"

It's strange that you'd post something like this when you opened with saying that you found the section intimidating as you'd seen other newbies ask people to be nice or kind.'

Apologies if my phrasing offended you, that was not my intention. However I believe that if information that effects your view comes in the form of memes, youtube videos, essentially from people who you want to agree with that have dumbed the info down for you in the way you need it simplified, then critical thinking isn't that important.

What I mean by that is that you know what you get with Trump, he is blatantly honest with most issues, and as harsh as his words can be, his actions have been and will be pretty similar to those words.

So we can conclude that when he said he thinks that women who have abortions should face criminal punishment he was being blatantly honest and harsh and his actions will match that. Great to know.

The Clintons are possibly the most investigated couple in american politics today. That nothing has stuck, no criminal charge etc just might be ... gosh what a concept ... because they haven't actually committed any crimes. No doubt they are political players - do you seriously think any woman (or man) could make it to the presidential election without being a player and knowing how to work the political system? - but they are not criminals and there has been no criminal charge or conviction against either of them.

Can you say the same for Trump?

Clinton is way way less hawklike than bush/cheney - who led the world to the current situation. But she is being judged on a different standard - the one that applies only to women.

Why not respond to Clinton as a politician and candidate. Why does the fact that she is a woman and a feminist - and for fucks sake surely every reasonable person running for office should be a feminist - make you condemn her more?

But you don't know what you'll get with Trump, he preaches fear and hatred - there's not solutions, no properly thought out policies, no thinking at all.

Christ it's claig lite

Just wait for the cut n pastes. Clearly trump has lost so lets start the under minding of clinton

Showmeagain

I'm going to re-post my post because I don't think you've answered my questions:

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you feel this way about her: what specifically leads you to conclude she is duplicitous, for example?

But I confess that you lost me when you wondered what the big deal is about a female POTUS - do you really mean that you don't understand why this is so important?

Pizan that meme didn't influence what I thought about Clinton and Trump. It just succinctly puts together in a single phrase just how this campaign has gone. Don't worry, my critical thinking skills are holding up just fine. But they can be honed a little better watching the events unfold over the next number of hours rather than on here so I am going to leave you and the agenda to it.

Amelia those little troofers like to get in there early!

Mizzemma

I have been reading manifesto's, I have been watching complete Rallies, I have researched political designs, I have read legislation proposed by Clinton, and legislation rejected by her. I have seen fact checker websites, and then conducted studies on those websites validity. I have studied mainstream media bias, and followed polls. Please don't get the impression my opinion is based on anything but a lot of work, a lot of effort, and a lot of not wanting to find what I was finding.

Have you read Clintons social media on overdrive in the last few weeks? It's concentrated around the fact that Trump is a mysoginist, buffoon, dirtbag who will nuke anyone that looks at him the wrong way. Both campaigns are disgracefull.

Also, no, the Scottish people did not vote SNP based on a 2nd referendum, they were voted in months before the UK voted to leave, and on that very day she got in front of every single camera that was showing a redlight. She didn't wait for 60 million people to digest the groundbreaking news, she jumped at the chance to add division at a very sensitive time in the countries history.

This thread just shows how a woman is expected to be the very best kind of person a politicain can be in order to be considered worthy of the title of female politition

Whereas a man just has to be the better out of whoever he's running against at that time.. unless he's running against a women, in which case he's fine if she has ANY flaws, regardless of how many he has

As for Nicola Sturgeon "disrupting Scottish life with her look at me routine" you do realise that she is First Minister for Scotland? That she's busy running the country?

Many people in Scotland would question that Sturgeon is "busy running the country". She's very busy pushing her own separatist agenda.

It IS important that America has a female president rather than a long line of only men
She does not have to be perfect or even close, because neither were many of the men who preceeded her

Why can't people separate the fact that it WOULD be good if we had 3 prominant female leaders: May, Clinton & Sturgeon, as that is in itself significant
Regardless of whether they are themselves good
it is still good that a woman (maybe) can! Having never had a woman get that far before!

Oh dear. Oh dear.

I reckon what with her having been running governments sucessfully for my entire adult life we might just be able to trust her to continue doing it.

What in her voting record don't you agree with? Was it the tiny percentage of times she voted slightly to the right of Bernie?

I am genuinely afraid for American women if she is not elected.

Again, I'll apologise for not replying to most people, I had no idea people would post this quickly...

Pallisers

So by the Trump 'punishment' quote, you are meaning when he said that IF abortion gets banned in the US, and is found illegal, will women who break the law get punished? Do you believe I am a pro life activist or something? Far from it, but if you're going to attack Trump just attack what he actually says, there is so much stupidity that misquoting him isn't necesary! How the hell have I become a Trump defender lol? I hate the moron, but you have to be honest!

You are right, the Clintons are the most investigated couple in politics, and no criminal convictions have stuck, but when did I say she was a criminal? I dislike her, and am worried about who she really is. Although if we talk facts her desemation of Clinton's (Bill) assault allegation victims is dark, very dark and pretty anti woman.

As I said previously, I hold Hillary in regard to the current political climate, compared her to opposition such as Sanders, and the current president. Isn't that fair?

'Why can't people separate the fact that it WOULD be good if we had 3 prominant female leaders: May, Clinton & Sturgeon, as that is in itself significant'

We? pretty patronising not to consider Merkel, Reddy, Bures, Szydlo, Syogren, Solberg and co who are all western world leaders!

Slippydippysoap

May I ask what specifically she has done well in the last 30 years, I'm not claiming that she has done nothing, but it's interesting to hear others opinions.

The SNP manifesto specifically included a pledge to hold another referendum if rUK voted to exit the EU and Scotland did not. So yes, they did vote for it.

I would suggested that the Clinton campaign has said that Trump is a misogynist because he quite clearly is. Besides what else are they going to attack? He has no policies!

Lass pushing their own agendas is what politicians are elected for.

"Apologies if my phrasing offended you, "

It didn't offend me. I found it strange, given your opening post.

Hence me posting that I found it strange, not that i was offended.

Hope that clears things up.

Nighty night.

Lass pushing their own agendas is what politicians are elected for.

Oh then why is a poster on here claiming Sturgeon is running the country?

Sturgeon has zero interest in what is actually good for Scotland. She has displayed utter contempt for the result of the Independence referendum - "once in a lifetime "? Who'd have guessed they were talking about a hamster 's life - span.

Mizzemma

You may need to re read the manifesto, they stated clearly that a 2nd independance referendum was not the focus of the 2015 campaign. And claimed that they would oppose an EU referendum, and support a strategy that enforced the UK remaining in the EU if one member state voted to remain. That clearly didn't happen so she went full 'look at me' mode.

Trump actually has a lot of policies, I know because I have spent hours reading them, I don't like many, and I don't like him, but thats no excuse.