Raising a child with gender dysphoria

[Buffy76]

Its hard to understand what it might be like for a mum listening to her child cry at night about the idea of growing a beard etc, terrified of turning into a man.
Its hard to imagine I know.
But I do know that most people do not hope their child will be trans. They hope its a phase, they hope that the fact the child still likes football etc means they cant really identify as a girl.
There is a HUGE gap between being a tom boy / liking lego or the other way round liking princess stuff etc and actually feeling inside like you were born in the wrong body.
Its so painful to see your child find their gender unbareable.
Please try to imagine, most parents are just doing their best, and most parents would not wish the life of being trans and all the difficulties and discrimination that comes with on their child. All you want is for your child to have as few challenges in life as possible,
But what I know is no matter how much boys clothes, lego, star wars toys etc you throw at a child, you can not MAKE them feel like a boy. Our children are who they are, and most mums are just trying to listen to their children and allow them to feel comfortable.
Its really hard for mums raising children with gender dysphoria. Please try to keep open minded and support them. Thank you xxxx

When I found out about periods, I was terrified and cried myself to sleep. When I was a late developer and didn't have my period (and it seemed like everyone else did) I was angry and cried myself to sleep. Turns out that was a fairly normal teenage experience - being a teenager sucks!

The human brain is not fully mature until 25 years old in some cases.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194

I didn't realise it was quite so late when homosexual people came to terms with their sexuality. However it does make sense. I find it frightening a homosexual person might be butchered by surgery.

Hormones make the brain mature and develop. If we flood teen brain with hormones then do we cause long term damage? It's one of those things that needs research and that research can't be done on animals. In fact it's questionable if it's possible/ ethical to do such reasearch.

For what it's worth in not on mermaids, I tried it and it's not for me. I do have a transgender child, and while I agree that things move to quickly uncritically in many cases, I totally understand how difficult it is to deal with as a parent. I would much rather that my child accepts their biology than go through hormones and surgery, and I hope that a lot of therapy will help.

However what will not help is deny my child's feelings and not support them. Telling them to get over it and move on would irreparably damage our relationship and their mental health. If that's pandering, so be it. I'd rather have a transgender child alive than a dead not transgender one.

i'm not on mermaids

Telling them to get over it and move on would irreparably damage our relationship and their mental health.

Can you find one post on MN where this was suggested? No you can't because it is almost universally believed on MN that children suffering distress because of gender issues need love, therapy and support. The concern is using hormones and surgery and encouraging a false hope that a child can change their sex.

I want to know from the Mermaids cheerleaders whether any of you were told the likelihood is that your children will grow up to be lesbian or gay and not trans? Did anyone talk to you about how lesbians and gay men come to terms with their sexuality quite late (average age 20 and 17)? What about the impact of homophobia on girls growing up to be butch lesbians?

What about the health risks of osteoporosis and vaginal atrophy (and associated incontinence) and increased risk of stroke from using cross sectional hormones? Did 'Mermaids talk about that?

I'm in no way a cheerleader for mermaids at all. I was on there for some time though and, to answer your question, I never saw any of this, just total encouragement from the members to go for hormones as soon as possible.

FloraFox yes I have seen this many times on Mumsnet, maybe not in these exact words but something like it.

I do agree with you on the surgery/hormones route, however it's very difficult to have a serious conversation about it with a young person who is convinced they are transgender and will shut down any criticism by shouting "transphobia". The only thing I can do for now is go with it with my reservations, hope the therapy will be lengthy and thorough, and thank my lucky stars that we are not in the USA.

Ocean is that way mermaid fan >>>>

It's interesting, pondering on where the "I am the most oppressed person in the universe" soliloquies come from when "no one understands how oppressed my child is" is coming from the adults.

I can't see anyone saying "no one understands how oppressed my child is" on this thread...

HardcoreLadyType

I honestly believe it is a phase...... *I'm interested in your experience, and wonder what I should be doing that will help my DD.

I truly want her to be herself, but this situation is hard.*

Hi HardcoreLadyType.

I agree with you it is hard for everyone going through this kind of thing. Teenage mental health is so fragile, and yet so resilient at the same time. When you're growing up teens have such profound things to say. but they're still children even if they don't believe they are (lol, how many of us as teens believed we were adults - most of us I'd guess!)

I can only ever talk about my experience so my situation may be different to your daughters, but I suspect we share many similarities.

For me, looking back with hindsight, my dysphoria came about because of a number of vectors. Although I was born in the UK it was not the first language I spoke. I was inherently different to all the other little girls. My mum came from a communist country where the political rhetoric was women and men were seen as equally capable at school and work. There was a big focus on academia and learning from my mum and she actively fought against my "pinkification" and "stupidifying" (her words) of females in England. This meant that I had a number of interests that culturally in England were seen as "boy interests". I thought girls were stupid and boring. I had hardly any friends in primary school as I had hardly anything in common with the girls and the boys didn't want to play with "horrible girls" so I was quite lonely. I think a lot of dysphonic teens have quite a lonely school life.

Through secondary school this trend continued. I went to an all girls school which you can imagine was horrible. I was not a cool kid - popular culture went right over my head and people thought I was a werido. I was horribly bullied all through my secondary school and was basically ostracised for being notably different. I had very short hair, was not feminine at all, was more interested in learning stuff than talking about boys, I HATED feminine clothing preferring androgynous baggy jeans and hoodies - all the standard non-conformist stuff. I was incredibly aware of what being a woman was supposed to be. I did not want to be sexy. I did not want to be pregnant. I wanted the same respect boys were given. I was also aware of the objectification of women in media and wanted nothing to do with it, although at the time, as a 13 year old, I didn't have the vocabulary or political theory that I have now to understand my own thoughts.

As I grew older and bits started to grow I felt disgusted. I started my period late - at 16 - and I was devastated when it came. I felt embarrassed by my body, of bits of me being pointed out. My mum talking about me "being a woman now" made me sick, but on the other hand I felt flattered that boys had started me attractive, but on some psychological level it confirmed that women's primary worth in our culture is linked to their bodies. Knowing that really fucks with your head, especially if in yourself worth sits at odds with that - everything seems so inevitable. When I was 17 I had a break down and threatened to cut my womb out with a knife. My mum made an appointment at the GP and the doctor told me to go home and chill out with my friends because otherwise he would section me, and anyway I might want kids later and change my mind.

And that was that. I was so angry at the doctor for years. How are he presume to know me better than I know myself? At the time the internet had just started to be introduced into family homes (it was 1999) and there were no trans "support" networks for teenagers so I had to go home and learn to cope with my disgust and internalised misogyny. It takes a very very long time to analyse your own childhood and the society that forms your opinions of yourself. At the age of 25 I'd come to terms with it. I'm 33 now but
the thought of pregnancy still disgusts me and terrifies me - but I know where that comes from. It's linked to internalising societies value of the perfect female body on myself. I still on some level see the value society places on my body and not my mind or personhood. It still hurts.

Had I had a peer group egging me on 20 years ago, and knowing myself as I do now, I probably would have self harmed even more. At points I was suicidal and it's the only power over my word I felt I had. I'm lucky that the trans thing hadn't kicked off while I was growing up: I'd either be dead, or on hormones with a mutilated body. I'm sure of that.

I'm not sure what to say about your daughter. It's a different world now, but I suspect your right that she is being egged on by the internet/peer group. Teenagers like me so desperately needed to fit in. It's so sad the amount of pressure that teens as peers put onto each other. I think the best thing my mum did was tell me that I was being stupid and there was nothing wrong with me. It hurt, at the time I was convinced she was wrong. She wasn't.

It's a shame that the government as well as so called progressives are hell bent on confirming to people like your daughter that "yes, there is something wrong with you" and making the reassurance of parents far more difficult by calling them "bigots" and "phobic". I'm so proud my mum and the doctor were a phobic bigot. They saved my life and gave me the right kind of attention.

Adults need to remember that teenagers and children have very strong emotions, but emotions also play tricks on us about the reality of our world. Tell your daughter things will get better, and she is perfect the way she is.

The thing is YestAnotherSpartacus I don't feel I actually got much in the way of active "help". I didn't see a psychotherapist, the doctor didn't want to to touch me, and my mum didn't seek "help groups".

I had to find my own coping mechanisms and it was incredibly tough.

So it's about the coping mechanisms for dysphoric teens really. Medical transition really is the easy option - it's based on a lie. You can only lie to yourself for so long and eventually lies unravel leading to all sorts of distress.

Body acceptance is far more difficult, but ultimately healthier. You have to come to terms with yourself and really work out where the discomfort stems from. Born in the wrong body is not an option. We are our bodies.

My ultimate goal is to change society to get rid of sex based social roles all together, giving people the freedom to love themselves without the chains of gender. That really is the mountain and the holy grail. Some would say pie in the sky, but I like a challenge.

Kropotkinator - thank you for the clarification. I did misread your earlier post. I thought you were saying that you were given no help, but that this ended up being helpful. I now see that you had a hell of a tough time finding your own coping mechanisms. Perhaps a middle ground is a place where support is given, but it's not ideologically driven and it aims towards body acceptance (?). I do feel for you doing all that on your own without support. I do agree with you about getting rid of sex/gender roles. As I age I find these (perhaps oddly) even more cumbersome.

A brilliant post from Kropokinator.

I wish the Mermaids people would understand that their answer is not the only answer. Their answer is also the one that is being pushed all over the internet. Children may grow up to be trans, yes. But they are more likely to grow up to be gay, non gender conforming, or even totally gender conforming and really embarrassed by old photos of themselves as children (my sister).

Nothing is more damaging than this rhetoric of "give your child drugs or they will commit suicide". Nothing.

Honestly I'm not sure what the middle ground would be or how it would look. As much as ideologically neutral is a great goal I honestly think it's impossible. Saying something "should be driven towards body acceptance" is not an ideologically neutral position, so I think for the sake of intellectual honesty that should be mentioned. That words for the other side too - saying "medical transition is the best way to help" is also an ideological position.

People can fence sit on this issue but I don't believe it's helpful. One option will have to supersede the other.

People who have bought into the trans narrative say that body positivity it's the equivalent of "conversion therapy". I have been accused of being self-hating trans myself BECAUSE of body acceptance.

Again I can only speak for my personal experience, but for what it's worth I agree with your "middle ground".

One other thing I wanted to add is that this sort of thing can become an obsession. Sometimes seeking "help" actually reinforces the obsession and keeps you thinking about it when ordinarily one might have forgotten about it and moved on to other things.

I do think medical transition should really be a last last last resort because I do not think that trans as a psychological phenomenon has been studied enough, let alone the long term medical implications of transition.

"One other thing I wanted to add is that this sort of thing can become an obsession. Sometimes seeking "help" actually reinforces the obsession and keeps you thinking about it when ordinarily one might have forgotten about it and moved on to other things".

Yes - utterly agree with you here.

I also accept that 'body acceptance' is an ideological position. I've read a little about this in the context of weight related issues and I have to admit that I find it quite confusing. But in respect to trans issues, I do think that a starting point is in help towards accepting what you have, rather than having it surgically altered. If this isn't possible then there may be other options, including surgery. But least invasive first...

It must be horrific going through all of that. All parents want is for their child to be happy and healthy.

However, mental health care is the option that should be taken until the child is old enough to commit to life changing surgeries and a lifetime of medical intervention. Along with them having the maturity to understand that the decision effects them in a huge way, its not just about looking pretty. Its about never having your own children. Its about being a 'copy' of the sex they wish to be, not the same as. Its about endless hours spent at doctors.

Organisations such as mermaids actively encourage children/their parents to go down this route, and that is fucking wrong. It may well be the answer for a small minority of GNC children, but definitely not all and sadly it appears with the 'support' of Mermaids the 'transition or die' view of tumblr and reddit is drummed into families by people claiming to be experts.

I can only wholeheartedly agree with you Kro

Kro thanks for your post. What you say about loneliness at school is very perceptive. It must have been tough

My DD loves lego.
my other dd loves starwars football and the colour blue......
what in the world is non-binary??? How do CHILDREN even know these terms exist?? Sorry but boys are boys and girls are girls....gay straight whatever you fancy but god gave you what you have for a reason - don't mess with it!

Great posts, kro

Thank you so much for that post, Kropot. I really appreciate your honesty and openness about your experience.

An excellent post Kro- and one I can really identify with. Being (undiagnosed) ASD I always felt I was performing being a girl- not always liking the correct things, saying the right things, much happier playing with boys. I loved Star Wars and got mocked by the other girls at school- and the boys.
Getting my periods and starting puberty was the worst time of my life- I just wanted it all to stop. I hated the male attention, the messiness of it all, the way my body was escaping from me. My family have always put huge pressure on me to a 'proper woman'- not to be so unemotional, so independent, so solitary.
I guess what I am trying to say the idea that there are 'trans' children and that every one else is 'cis' (hate that word- okay with their body, perfectly in tune, no issues with being female is utter bollocks and simplification.