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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

MRAs and mental illness - blaming it on women

30 replies

Albadross · 22/10/2016 18:04

Recently a friend started a social media campaign to find her homeless brother who is addicted to drugs and has several severe mental illnesses.

It got on Buzzfeed, where some absolute cunt had posted saying that it was all because of selfish feminists who shy away from taking care of their children, blah blah, you know the MRA line.

Now I get that people who think this way are obviously projecting, but it still makes me furious that anyone could be such a complete twat - even going as far as questioning why my friend's mother wasn't in any of the photos and suggesting it was her fault for not being there.

I've recently been attacked by men saying that people that have BPD (borderline personality disorder) as I do are inherently evil. They actually seem to make this part of their political ideology - to 'stand against' PDs as if they're something we sign up to voluntarily!

How many of these people are there lurking out there and how worried should I be about being doxxed or whatever just for discussion around sexism/feminism?

OP posts:
Original poster
Albadross · 23/10/2016 15:23

Anyone any thoughts?

OP posts:
PuertoVallarta · 23/10/2016 16:28

I'm really sorry about your friend's brother. It's sad that mothers and other women are always to blame.

MRAs are vile and nothing they do surprises me. I don't think you're 100% safe from being doxxed, but I don't think you need to be overly worried, either. They can't go after all of us, after all. I suspect (though it's hard to tell, isn't it?) that we outnumber them quite drastically.

(Apologies for this useless post. I didn't want to leave you without any replies.)

venusinscorpio · 23/10/2016 16:35

I just wanted to say what an arsehole OP. Sadly there are a lot of nasty little trolls who get a kick out of saying awful things to distressed people. I hope your friend manages to find her brother Flowers

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 23/10/2016 16:36

I don't think all MRA's are vile. That's a gross generalization. Granted they have a PR problem and the idiot/sensible meter trends more towards the idiot at times, but I think some men have some legitimate greivances.

I would however agree that men's mental health issues being women's fault is fucking ridiculous. In my reading and correct me if I am wrong, a lot of men (and women for that matter!) who suffer from things like suicidal ideation had absentee fathers.

I think the question where did all these fathers go is a pertinent one, and I'm not trying to make a cheap point about single mothers blocking contact. I'm sure it happens, but as sure as eggs are eggs a lot of men just fucked off and never looked back...

VestalVirgin · 23/10/2016 17:13

I don't think all MRA's are vile. That's a gross generalization. Granted they have a PR problem and the idiot/sensible meter trends more towards the idiot at times, but I think some men have some legitimate greivances.

MRAs are so well known to be arseholes that no man with legitimate grievances would join them.

For all sexism related problems, there is feminism, which men can support. Most feminist groups even allow men to join.
If a single father is miffed that people think he is incompetent at raising children, he doesn't need a "men's rights" activism, he can easily ally with feminism.

How many of these people are there lurking out there and how worried should I be about being doxxed or whatever just for discussion around sexism/feminism?

Too many. Be worried. Be very worried.

... actually, no, don't be worried, be brave and do not let them intimidate you.

Xenophile · 23/10/2016 17:21

If MRAs actually tackled any of these problems, I'd be right behind them. Sadly, what they mostly want to do is threaten feminists and whine about how bad their lives are because women won't fuck them.

Men's mental health is about to hit crisis point. There is no money at all, which is why the female suicide rate is rising dramatically as well. The people who hold the purse strings tend to be male. Will they loosen them off to help others of their sex?

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 23/10/2016 17:22

I think it's a movement that's finding it's feet Vestal, but I empathise that's you're view of them, and equally as valid as my own. I hope one day once they get over thier frustration they'll start to think.

In my case I am not exactly pro-feminist, in fact I have grave misgivings towards it's over-identification with left-wing politics to which I am opposed. Which I appreciate is a view that won't appeal to many.

But don't mistake me as being anti-feminist, I have a wonderful brain and I am sure you do to. The whole idea of different ideologies and perspectives appeals to me. We as a species have clearly not gotten it "right" quite yet.

So if there is something I don't agree with I'll still defend your right to mull it over with like minded people, just to see where the rabbit hole goes.

HillaryFTW · 23/10/2016 18:38

Is it the feminist part of MN that's attracted you to sign up, ASIP?

HillaryFTW · 23/10/2016 18:41

OP, I'm really sorry about your brother. That twat was massively hard of thinking to try and use his problems in that way

Original poster
Albadross · 23/10/2016 21:48

It wasn't my brother - my poor friend's, she's also had lots of support though which is good.

OP posts:
Original poster
Albadross · 23/10/2016 21:50

Someone on FB today posted a story about some charity person flirting with him (she spoke in a sexy voice he said) and then asked why it was 'OK to use your body for financial gain of wolf whistling isn't ok'.

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 24/10/2016 14:41

That asshole on FB probably just imagined that "flirting".Entitled dudes always believe that attractive women who show them normal politeness , or are even so unwise to be friendly, are flirting with them.

@AntiSocial: There is no need for a men's right's movement. The people in power are men. If you choose to believe that MRAs are not actually just anti-feminists, framing themselves as oppressed group to advance their actual goal, which is the oppression of women, then you have to admit that they are spectacularly stupid.

It is like if the working class blamed housecats for their poverty, on the grounds that housecats live in luxury while the working class people starve. Could you have any respect for such a movement?

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 24/10/2016 18:18

@HillaryFTW, it struck me as an intelligent place, that whilst I do not agree with all the feminist rhetoric I'd like to give it the good old college try to understand more, and in paticular it's context.

As with most things my thoughts are a constant work in progress.

HillaryFTW · 24/10/2016 19:41

"all the feminist rhetoric"

Ok. Please bear in mind that, both here and elsewhere on MN, you are almost always hearing about women's lived experience, not rhetoric or any other debating society/theoretical position.

"the good old college try"

I don't know what this is.

HillaryFTW · 24/10/2016 19:43

"OK to use your body for financial gain of wolf whistling isn't ok'."

Well (a) because she probably wasn't flirting but (b) even if she was, a person's choice to act in a sexual way is light years apart from a man's choice to make an unsolicited "comment" on a woman's sexual attractiveness - one is chosen, the other imposed.

Is he also hard of thinking, this chap?

venusinscorpio · 24/10/2016 19:44

YY Hilary. You'd be wise to heed that piece of advice, AS.

growapear · 24/10/2016 20:07

Vestal

You can't seriously be claiming that in 2016 UK, women hold as much influence as house cats ?

I don't disagree with the assertion that mens rights movements are largely pointless. This is because I don't believe the issues they are going on about are that important. However, i find the logic that says they have no business even mobilising politically difficult to follow.

Lets take one of the cornerstones of mens rights movements, this is the only one that as a man there seems any truth in, and that is that education is being feminized and there is a "war against men". No men want to become primary school teachers for fear of being branded "pedos". Women are wary of men around children (this is not womens fault, I'm not saying that, I would agree it is largely mens fault) .Feminists want "masculine" behaviour of the kind young boys engage in (like scrapping with each other,) to be discouraged and they want to create a genderless utopia with the "masculine" end of the "gender spectrum" chopped off. I might be badly summarising the MRA movement, but I think this is along the lines of what I've read. Now - your argument goes something like "This can't be true because if it were, then men in charge wouldn't allow it". ? Supposing that one day the patriarchs decided these mra chaps (and they would say chaps wouldn't they?) had a point and they better put a stop it, what would they do ? Do you really believe that in the UK today, men could change the education system so that boys suddenly started to do much better than women ? How would they do it ? Which powerful men would pull which levers ? The PM and the education secretary are both female ? How does the patriarchy mobilise ? Do you have any examples ?

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 24/10/2016 20:29

&HillaryFTW, I'm not here to argue or debate, because honestly I can be a complete ass when I argue, so I try to avoid it. I'd like to share thoughts. On an individual level sure I don't want people I interact with to feel that I am not listening and taking them seriously, but if I don't have the same/similar "lived experience" it is very difficult to just jump on board and agree/understand.

I had written more about my reasons for being here, but it turned into a massive digression from the topic at hand, so I snipped it and started my own thread, so if you have time to communicate more I would appreciate it.

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist · 24/10/2016 20:31

oops the title thread is Gamergate and Feminism

HillaryFTW · 24/10/2016 20:33

"not here to argue or debate, because honestly I can be a complete ass when I argue, so I try to avoid it."

Glad to hear that. I'll have a look at your other thread when I can.

vesuvia · 24/10/2016 22:11

AntiSocialInjusticePacifist wrote - "I think it's a movement that's finding it's feet".

MRAs have been opposing feminism since the 1890s and probably even before that. I think after 120 years, their movement has had more than enough time to find its feet.

Original poster
Albadross · 27/10/2016 19:30

I did try to assert the fact that speaking in a sexy voice isn't a public statement of objectification but he wasn't having any of it. Although he's visually impaired so perhaps he picks up more signals from voices that maybe wouldn't be there if he was getting the visual cues (or lack of)...

OP posts:
Childrenofthestones · 27/10/2016 22:52

Antisocialinpacifist
"The Red Pill" documentary by Cassie Jaye is just out.

noblegiraffe · 27/10/2016 23:14

Do you really believe that in the UK today, men could change the education system so that boys suddenly started to do much better than women ? How would they do it ? Which powerful men would pull which levers?

The answers to those questions are
Yes
By scrapping coursework
Michael Gove

Girls outperformed boys for years at maths GCSE. The exact year that maths coursework was scrapped at GCSE, boys started to outperform girls and have done so ever since. The curriculum changes which have scrapped coursework (including controlled assessments) for most subjects and the move to linear exams is likely to be in boys' favour.

Xenophile · 27/10/2016 23:59

Primary teaching has also moved away from a classroom style that helps girls thrive (sitting quietly at a desk working) to one that suits boys better (free range teaching). Of course this is only true for girls and boys who are performing their socialised gender role and there are obvious caveats for rowdy girls and studious boys.

Maybe the perceived feminisation of education is because teaching, especially primary teaching is viewed as low status work, and so therefore more women end up as primary teachers. It also appears to be true that a male primary teacher is quickly promoted to management, over his female colleagues. This Rwanda to be a feature of men taking roles in female dominated industries.