Coming to terms with what (some) men do to women

[Fantome]

Not sure if this is the right place so hope it's ok starting this thread. I'm 16, and for a while have been quite angry and upset about rampant misogyny, the various aspects of sexism women and girls suffer from and how prevalent it is. Last week's attack in Oxford has increased this tenfold, it's just so hideous and I can't think of much else other than what the girl must have gone through, for hours, it's absolutely horrific. Hope it doesn't seem like I'm feeling sorry for myself, she is the victim and it's about her not me. I was just wondering if it was alright to ask how women here learnt to deal with or cope with knowing all this goes on in the world, not just the fear of it happening to you, more the rage it causes knowing it's happened to other girls and women.

I know men and boys are also victims of horrible things but this is specifically about gendered violence which is in my opinion a manifestation of violent misogynistic feeling. I also hope it's ok me starting a thread like this.

I hope it is changing. In ways I worry it's getting worse when I talk to my mum about it, but hopefully whilst objectification and misogyny might be widespread, some boys are also thinking more about feminism and trying to understand what girls experience. It needs boys and men to be part of the change, standing up against sexism. I'm really lucky with my school, a girls' school which inspires us and a safe environment to learn and support one another. I do feel recently I'm bringing my friends down a bit though, as the incident in Oxford has got to me and I can think of little else. Still, I'm lucky I have friends I can chat about feminism with and share rage at sexism. Sex education and lessons around consent at schools really needs to be better even now I think! Social media is double edged, I can't deny it's a significant part of my life but it can get a bit much, especially with how many boys talk to and about girls on it.

Thank you for your reply Grimarse (another great username). Your daughter sounds great and like she'll have a brilliant future and career. It's good you've bought her such books but as you said, she has to decide for herself, and you could say she is involved in activism in her own way, enjoying feminist books, being aware, studying, ambitious, driven and with a great career as an independent woman and one who could inspire other girls in the future to come. I find it frustrating when I talk to girls who just aren't interested at all, but you can't force it!

Maybe men and boys getting involved in feminism isn't the right way to put it, but they are vital to the movement in my opinion. I completely agree it needs to be run by and for women and girls, but men need to be engaged with at some point as they have the power to challenge misogyny in a different way, stand up against violence against women, casual sexism, harassment, change culture amongst themselves. Call out other guys when they make sexist comments where if a woman did she may be abused, or support women when we highlight sexism. Maybe men shouldn't be "within" feminism but they are part of it in a way. Plus feminism benefits boys and men in ways, as it wants no children to be limited by sex or have to conform to outdated notions of "femininity" or "masculinity" etc.

You're very eloquent Fantome.

I would like to see boys involved more in feminism. I have a teen boy. I worry about the teen boy's attitude. A couple of years ago he actually said to me "You're not a feminist are you?" When I asked him what he thought feminist means he started to get annoyed and muttered something about feminism and being anti-men. He won't listen to me or his teen sister on how our lives are different to his on account of being an owner of a vagina.I think that if another man spoke to him, it would have greater influence on him so I agree with the sentiment that for feminism to agree we need more men to get involved.
There are so many high-profile incidents that could be discussed with school children. Social media savvy teens have heard about what happened to Gigi Hadid and Kim Kardashian. They need adults or others to say that the former didn't lash out (she was clearly protecting herself) and the latter did not deserve to be subjected to a violent robbery because she flaunted her ring on social media. (need to get off this angry rant)

Thank you eyebrowsonfleek.

I can empathise with you on with regards to your son. I have two brothers, who are both very hostile to feminism (though have stopped trying to wind me up about it quite so much now I've given them a few rants). They go on about it being "man hating" despite my mum and I, and even my dad somewhat, putting them right. I've also overheard one of them making some pretty objectifying comments about girls he knows with friends. Not that I'm in any position to give advice but I'd say if you and your daughter keep talking about it with him but not in an accusatory way (not that I'm saying you do that) he may listen one day, that's what I'm hoping with regards to my brothers. My dad has taken quite a bit of what I've said on board and actually said he'll think about it a lot more when managing people at work (he's in quite a male environment and has thought more now about how the women there feel). Men do need to talk to other men and boys, it shouldn't be the case that men and boys often don't take women or girls seriously but it sadly seems to be.

Everyone I know is definitely aware about what happened with Gigi Hadid and Kim Kardashian. Luckily all the girls I know were outraged about the former (not least the coverage of her "not model behaviour" and as you said "lashing out") and the victim blaming with the latter. Totally agree with your angry rant! Far too often women and girls are the victim of these YouTube "pranks".