I got accused of being a man last night

[Emochild]

Went out for a rare drink last night with some friends -sort of place people go pre club so everyone is dressed up -I was wearing a black dress (high neck if relevant) a red belt and red, block heeled Mary Jane shoes
I'm not particularly confident with my looks -i'm approaching 40, overweight and 6ft tall in my socks -I've never not worn heels though as I like how they change my posture and they give me confidence (and why the hell shouldn't I wear what I want?)

I went into the toilets and was just washing my hands when these 'ladies' came over obviously half cut asked me if I was having a good night, all very friendly

There were then some giggles, looks exchanged between the group and then one of them said 'so are you one of those trans then? You're very good'
I obviously said no so they started trying to get me to say that I was trans, it was ok, they wouldn't tell anyone, they didn't mind me using the ladies etc

I continued saying no, they'd kind of circled me at this point so I couldn't walk away without pushing them aside -and I didn't know how that would turn out, I was just trying to avoid trouble at this point
One of them grabbed the bottom of my skirt and started trying to lift it up

Fortunately at this point someone must have got the bouncers as the female bouncer came in and moved them on

I've been mistaken for male before but when I've been in my work clothes and people have taken in my size before my face and they have been quick to apologise

I tried to laugh it off last night but I've been thinking about it all night and i'm still upset -just haven't put my finger on why

I'd say you're upset because you were bullied abd harassed by a bunch of arseholes. 💐

Oh OP .

That's horrible, I'm not surprised you feel still upset. The bouncers interuppted an assault; they were trying to look up your skirt!

The underlying message here is that 'real' women aren't tall / overweight. That's deeply insulting and ignorant.

I hope the sting lessens and your perspective shifts. Those drunk women should be the ones feeling uncomfortable about last night.

I think it's made me question if that's what people think of me on a daily basis -they are just too polite to say without a bit of Dutch courage

My youngest daughter is 12, already 5ft 8 and still has growing to do
I worry that she will be perceived the same way

if that's what people think of me on a daily basis

No, it won't be at all. Those people were viciously horrible and don't deserve another second of your time fretting about it. They should be prosecuted for assault ffs. This sort of thing gives me the rage . Unfortunately there are always a few of these people in life. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

for you

People aren't that thick. Most people can tell from so many things that you are a woman, face, posture, body shape, voice, mannerisms. These girls were drunk and had lost the ability to take any of these things into account, I also think that with so many trans stories at the moment they've probably been waiting to see a trans woman in the women's toilets and trampolined to the wrong conclusion based simply on your height. Let's face it, they aren't the most intelligent people if tall = man in their world.

The fact they tried to lift up your skirt is awful and I'm glad the bouncers intervened! Who the fuck does that???

Don't let the actions of a few drunk fuckwits make you doubt yourself and question how other people see you.

I think it's made me question if that's what people think of me on a daily basis -they are just too polite to say without a bit of Dutch courage

Do you ever leave the house in jeans and t-shirt? Because if so, and if you really looked anything like a man, you would have been mistaken for one already - and people couldn't have been too polite to say it, because they would really have thought you a man!

I have a friend who has been mistaken for a man once, and she's short and very female looking, she just has short hair.

So I'd rather assume those women were too alcoholised to see clearly, or to behave decently.

(Though I admit I do get paranoid about trans and could understand it from that angle, if they had been uncomfortable with a man in the ladies' room. Since obviously, they weren't, they could just have shut up. Surely, you answering in a female voice should have cleared up all misunderstandings, if there ever were any.)

I had a friend who was 6 foot in her socks and she was a target for abuse from men and women because of her height. I don't know why society finds tall women do threatening.

for you op. Sorry you came across such arseholes.

I was out with a female friend who is slightly butch looking, but still definitely recognisable as a woman. A group of pissed women thought it was hilarious to ask her repeatedly 'Are you a man.' Obviously they knew she was a woman or they wouldn't have asked her in the first place. Disgusting behaviour.

they sound awful, I am so sorry they were so shitty to you.

I'm another six footer who is sometimes addressed as "sir", when people just click the height and nothing else (the boobs and the long hair for a start!), and I just gently correct it or laugh. I've also been asked twice how long I've been cross dressing or living as a woman, which is just bonkers. I never had a good comeback, but I would just mumble "er, no, I'm a woman" and use my Very Hard Stare on them.

"My youngest daughter is 12, already 5ft 8 and still has growing to do. I worry that she will be perceived the same way"

Not aggressively in the same way, but I've been asked pointedly if I'm a man in women's toilets more than once - I'm 5' 1" and weigh 7 stone. Some people are just dense & can't cope with a woman who doesn't fit the designated feminine norm. (I've got cropped hair and mostly wear combats/sleeveless t-shirts.). Teenage dd who is the same build as me gets the same sometimes - again, short hair & jeans/t-shirt, even though usually something pretty fitted.

That's shitty and I'm really sorry you encountered such idiots. Lifting your skirt was assault. Hope you feel OK today.

As another poster said, I also reserve a tiny percentage of my anger for the fact that whereas previously women in the toilets would be certain that any other person in the loos was a woman, no matter how ambiguous their appearance, nowadays we have to be aware that its entirely possible that males might be in the loos with us. Women's emotional reactions to that may range from indifference to curiosity to fear to anger. All of which are entirely valid. Acting upon those feelings though does not include lifting skirts and harassing individuals.

It maddens me that in being on alert for the presence of men in the women's loos I might also mentally question anyone who looks ambiguous and thus inadvertently might be mentally questioning other women where I once didn't need to.

This is just one of the damaging effects of allowing men into women's spaces, that women end up nervously checking out other women just in case. I hate that.

This in no way excuses the way that women acted. It was wrong and they were stupid and nasty.

Hairy - it's not a new thing, though - I've been asked (challenged?) from time to time throughout my adult life, and I'm 46.

What I would say is that some women now perhaps tend to be more aggressive towards those who don't fit their view of what a woman should look like.

I am so sorry you had to go through this, what arseholes they are.

This, unfortunately will get worse in the future as people come to actually expect men in the womens.

I do not understand people who go on like this. One of my best mates is a 'butch' lesbian who does look quite masculine and dresses in traditionally masculine clothes. She is told time and time again that she actually is a bloke and has had similar issues in toilets before. Gender stereotyping bullshit.