Is patriarchy such a bad thing?

[user1473365145]

Because I was thinking, since I've discovered feminism I'm just not as happy. Ignorance is bliss and all that. I just want things to go back to how they were.

Too late Alice, you have gone through the Looking Glass.

I get the despair, but I find it helps to have an easily understood framework which you can apply in a multitude of situations as to how women get shafted.

You can go forawrd in discussion if you both agree that patriarchy is the current rule book, so women simply doing things differently to societal expectation just isnt going to cut the mustard!

The trick is to remember that things were never how they seemed.

But yes, I look back wistfully at the days before anger, outrage and frustration became my daily state of being.

It helps to remind myself that other women are not happy in patriarchy, and never had the option to remain ignorant and blissful.

Also, I hope being aware of patriarchy helps me avoid some of the common mistakes women make because they think the world is fair. (Like, you know, having sex with male strangers, because we are told this is totally a thing a modern and liberated woman can do, and then being totally surprised that this means you can't even accuse your rapist of rape lest you be sued for slander. I suppose I never had any urge to do so, but it's just an example.)

I mean, sure, I have to live with the knowledge that the world is not fair, and patriarchy is shit, but at least I won't hit my head on the glass ceiling - because I know it exists and will use my hands to find out where it is.

Yes. I just feel like we all have Stockholm syndrome in a way because there are a million things that have happened to me that I brushed off as 'one of those things' but would devastate me if they happened to dd. So for her and other women (because it's easy to get angry for others) I want to end patriarchy. But I do get what you mean.

I'd love a simple way to explain the patriarchy to others. I fail miserably every time. Any suggestions? I don't know enough yet. I disagree with OP though. I'm glad I'm learning and don't want to look back. IDIC.

I think patriarchy just means most things are set up with men as default.
For example I recently had a Peugeot 208 as a courtesy car. The steering wheel is designed so you look at the speedometer over it rather than through it. I couldn't see it because I'm too short.
5'3" may be small for a man but it's not unusual for a woman. That car has been designed for males because male is the default for human.
There is interesting research to suggest medical trials look from the perspective of males as default when women react differently to drugs.
Caitlin Moran's book "How to be a woman" is good and very easy reading too so might be worth a look.

I think the most defining aspect of Patriarchy is that we actually come to see ourselves through the "male gaze" to a point that is beyond healthy, to a point that is bad for us.

We cover ourselves up or show ourselves off, wear and do things that are uncomfortable for us to do because of how we have been taught to believe men see us. We come to view ourselves on a scale of pretty to ugly from an early age and allow our self worth to be determined by that.

But the worst aspect of it is the lies we tell ourselves to rationalise the ways things are. We buy the lies offered to us: that we cover because we are special jewels that men wish to protect, that we shave ourselves and totter on high heels because it is an individual choice which empowers us. That we do the housework because we are better at multi tasking, the list goes on..

Once you realise the lie and throw away the rationales it is depressing because you are left with a sense of powerlessness.

this is a joke, yes?

There is interesting research to suggest medical trials look from the perspective of males as default when women react differently to drugs

all drugs are only tested on males, never on children or females

Patriarchy negatively affects women's health, wealth, opportunities, self-esteem and happiness so I don't understand why a woman would be happier under it?

Is it that feminism makes you aware that some of your closest friends and family might be the cause of your unhappiness? Or makes you aware that most women are having a shit time under it? Or that it is so hard to change?

Feminism makes me happy. Discovering it was a light in my life.

antimatter "all drugs are only tested on males, never on children or females"

I gasped at this - looked it up and it appears to be the case in the past but not now.

I was told by my BIL who is working in drug trials industry, I'll ask him tomorrow if anything changed recently

there seems to be change and this is interesting article about it
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/apr/30/fda-clinical-trials-gender-gap-epa-nih-institute-of-medicine-cardiovascular-disease

"all drugs are only tested on males, never on children or females"

Not true about women.

How could a child give consent for drugs testing?

Do you think before writing this stuff?

Antimatter - 'all' drugs? HRT, the contraceptive pill, breast cancer drugs...?

I gasped at this - looked it up and it appears to be the case in the past but not now.

I believed they changed it after the contergan scandal, at least if they wanted to recommend the medication to pregnant women. But change is slow - not sure if testing all medication on women is actually a requirement now.

How could a child give consent for drugs testing?

How could a child give consent to taking medication that has not been tested on children?

Since plenty of medication is given to children, one would assume that it is tested on children after it has been tested on adults and found to be sufficiently harmless. Surely that's better than, you know, just giving it to children without testing beforehand.

re: testing drugs on children
www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm143565.htm
May 2016
Most drugs prescribed for children have not been tested in children. Before the Food and Drug Administration initiated a pediatric program, only about 20 percent of drugs approved by the FDA were labeled for pediatric use. By necessity, doctors have routinely given drugs to children "off label," which means the drug has not been approved for use in children based on the demonstration of safety and efficacy in adequate, well-controlled clinical trials.

I should have said most drugs aren't tested on women
that is what the guardian article is talking about

I don't know the stats, it isn't my specialty but most major groups of druigs aren't tested on women
and huge majority of kids medication either

Until recently signs of a heart attack were based on mens symptoms

There are a few overlaps but women can present very differently

Yes it is such a bad thing.

Now you could reduce the unhappiness it causes by lobotomising all females at the age of 5 so that we never develop the capacity for independent thought so never start yearning for a world of freedom and equality. That would be way easier than building a world of freedom and equality.

But no, I choose the anger and dissatisfaction and the hope that things might be better for my granddaughters.

Well trot over to Afghanistan or have a chat with some girls who have lived there that will make you glad all those feminists made a fuss over here.
FGM = not a lot of fun, we don't want anyone to 'go back to that'. Although we don't have to go back as 200mil women worldwide are impacted. We need to be angry activists about this issue.

However, bits of me are entirely sympathetic to your point. I like it when people (men?) carry things for me. Perhaps I am just lazy.

Is patriarchy a bad thing?

Well, there does seem to be a need for some organization and control in society, although as I get older I question more whether anarchy is the super-bad ideology that we get told it is.

But - needing governments/armies/organized healthcare etc doesn't mean that it has to be white men in charge.

If you want to know if patriarchy is a bad thing, look at the history of Africa and the way that white men invaded and destroyed those cultures and countries, and created problems that still cause poverty, suffering and death now. Yet, we give ourselves such a big pat on the back for giving them charity.

Look at the one in four women who will be sexually assaulted at some point in their lives.

Look the % of men who are CEOs, politicians, the main breadwinner in the family and think about just how much control they have.

Look at my friend who was habitually raped by her husband for over a decade but doesn't see it as rape because he just persuaded her to let him have his conjugal rights.

Look at the four women every day (globally, on average) who are killed by their male romantic partner.

As distressing as it is, NOT seeing these things is even worse, because it means you don't even think these things are wrong.

Since plenty of medication is given to children, one would assume that it is tested on children after it has been tested on adults and found to be sufficiently harmless. Surely that's better than, you know, just giving it to children without testing beforehand.

It seems that children do indeed participate in clinical trials after all. These are the guidelines;

www.pharmpress.com/files/docs/paeditaric_sample_chapter.pdf

I know what you mean about ignorance is bliss.

Would it be helpful if you are feeling angry at men in general to think of them like spoilt children? A spoilt child didn't choose to be spoiled IYSWIM. And while a spoilt child enjoys preferential treatment they are nevertheless 'spoilt'. The patriarchy is ultimately not in the interests of women or men even though many individual men are advantaged in terms of being more likely to get the best jobs, dominate the playground, have cars, chairs etc that fit them because, just like us, they have to suffer the bad effects of men being dominant - wars, poor decisions made as a result of being too competitive/proud, feeling threatened by capable women etc etc etc

It would be slightly better if men, as well as hogging the leading jobs still thought of themselves as being the ones who would look after women on the grounds of their usually superior strength; took on a protective role.

And if they valued the biological differences more. Accepted that pregnancy, childbirth and looking after babies are important and deserve to be supported instead of ignored or looked down on.