Housework and why men not doing it is contributing to inequality

[AskBasil]

The chore wars

Someone posted this on my FB earlier on and I think it's the best articles I've read about domestic labour and equality.

It's really not always true though. I'm still in bed (tired as pregnant and have a one year old) and have been on maternity leave/annual leave for over a year, so whilst I am not a sahm because I am getting paid I am not actually at work iyswim. So far DH has got up with DD and played with her until she has gone to bed for her nap. Since she has been asleep he has been solidly doing housework and I have very lazily done nothing. This is a typical weekend in our household. Whilst I do plenty of the day to day chores during the week, DH does more than his share at the weekend and he does almost all of the gardening apart from the odd bit of watering and planting.

AskBasil - well in this case, he couldn't really do much less. He doesn't even have enough of a concept of "invisible work" to even worry about it not happening

He's definitely concerned that my headspace would be partly elsewhere - also who would visit his mother on a daily basis? (he moved her into a flat down the road after she became widowed last year). And of course, I need to fit the job into school hours ( youngest is 5 so 3.15 pick up).

So obstacles and guilt trips all the way and I know I'm not the only one.

I think it's having babies and the breastfeeding routine that pave the way for everything else, unless you're very careful. Your role becomes restricted for a few months and then it's so easy for the usual gender stereotyping around caregiving and housework to creep in. Obviously some people are more conditioned to conform to traditional gender roles than others, but so much it is unconscious as well.

I reposted this on the "deprogramming" thread too..... But earlier this week I posted a rant in Relationships while I was STBXs (until recently my home too) and it was really clean. Not just clean but it looked fantastic. Junk cleared out, new bright furnishings. Not only does he know how to tidy/clean but he knows what "homely" is. I was both stunned and pissed off.

That is so galling, myownperson.

It's not that they don't know how to do it, it's that they don't want to do it. And they know that they are not considered owners of the task of doing it, so they just don't.

As soon as they become owners of the task, funnily enough, they can do it perfectly well.

There is a very comprehensive chore list in this blog post by an American author.

Not been on for a while but yes. In fact he makes all the pack lunches (mine too when I have one) does all the shopping, more than half the cooking. Shared the nit combing with me the one time we've had to do it! He buys and changes all the loo roll and as a team we do parties and holidays. He sorts all the food for parties I do invites and party bags. He does majority of bedtimes, washes and dries hair. We share garden labour. I think the only thing I do most of is laundry and ironing! I trade my ironing time for his IT skills so he does all my updates and syncing.
He's currently loading the dishwasher and getting the kids to bed while I type this. I live him loads...but it took a while to get to this stage!
Going to check thread to see if I've missed anything.

Oh yeah. I tend to buy all the presents for children's parties that we go to but Christmas is an equal split. He cannot wrap presents though so I'll do that he has to make the Christmas card and email it out! There is a lot of thinking and planning going on but he honestly shares that too.
I've thought of another thing I do most of-sewing (mending and badges onto uniform) but he does more than me in other areas so it is fair.
He also cleaned the bathroom more than me, but I deck scrubbed the floors more often. We both hated those tasks so have budgeted for a cleaner every other week. We also share finances and after bills are paid have exactly the same amount of personal spending money each.

The trouble with a lot of women is that they are so good at housework, I'm bloody hopeless at it. My SIL does it in such a way that you can never find anything to do at her house and you rarely catch her doing it either. My married friends have such high standards they cannot convince the male members of their families to keep them up.

I come from a long line of women who are bad at housework and I really do like a clean house. I like living with other people too, but apart from helping out friend who is stuck for a place to live, I avoid it because I know I am impossible to live with.

My husband does most of the domestic tasks. It's not an even split. We both work full time but he works shifts which means he is home at times when the children aren't and (crucially) I genuinely don't care about having a tidy house.

If left to my own devices I would clean the clutter regulary and only do the other things (meaning hoovering, washing, dishes) when it reaches a certain tipping point. I don't iron. Actually writing this is making me feel fucking terrible.

My husband isn't particularly clean but I am particularly scruffy. It's something I ponder a lot, I swing between feeling horribly guilty that he does more work than me and rationalising that it's his choice as he has a lower 'cleaning threshold' than me. Then I spiral when I realise that this justification is the reason many of my friends partners give for not pulling their weight. My husband isn't a door mat, I am a text book sports widow and when the kids were younger it evened out his sporting escapades at weekends and evenings. Problem is the kids are older now and don't require an adult presence.... in fact they are sports mad too and he does all the stuff in that respect (washing kits, taking them to training, matches, buying new equipment etc etc).

Miffer, I am like your husband - I just have a lower threshold to untidiness. Doing housework doesn't bother me. I do insist that our teenage kids do their own ironing and putting clothes away. They can also cook for themselves if they are hungry.

If he isn't kicking off about it, then there is no issue.

If he isn't kicking off about it, then there is no issue.

I'd at least have a conversation with him.

Okay - I'm not trying to tell her how to run her relationship, but if I had a problem with it, I'd speak up. I'd expect any adult to do the same. I'm not talking about cleaning up filth here - just washing anything I find in the laundry basket, doing dishes, a bit of hoovering etc. And I do expect the kids to pull their weight - keep their rooms tidy, dirty washing in the basket, their own ironing, chores around the house. I don't think that's unreasonable for teenagers living here rent free.

I really identify with the concept that women's tasks are thankless, unnoticeable and non-finite. Dh is (by far) the main earner (although I earned more than him before we had children).

I'm very part time and therefore naturally do most of the housework. He does do stuff , but he very much seems to get to choose which aspects of the home (and to some extent the children) he engages with.

He loves cooking, so he does quite a bit of that (mostly at weekends ) and he likes diy and gardening and does all of that. He likes a clean and tidy kitchen to cook in, so is good at keeping it clean when he's using it. It would never really occur to him to do laundry, clean bathrooms, hoover, dust etc though. And I suspect they will always be my domain even if I go back to work full time.
I feel ungrateful if I get resentful about it, because his job is hard and he does do quite a lot at home compared with many men. My parents and female friends often comment on how practical and involved he is. And it's true, but it is very much on his terms. I see decades of those boring, thankless tasks stretching ahead of me (without evidence like a completed diy project to be admired) and I feel a bit exasperated.

DH is tidier by nature than me too.

Tasks are pretty even, but I agree this is unusual.

BeigeLeaf That is an extremely useful list - thank you. I think DP and I have a relatively fair split at the moment of occasional/daily chores/organising, but it would be useful to walk through that list together as I suspect we are both doing more work in some areas than we feel is recognised, and less in others. I like the article's guidance that each task needs an agreed acceptable level (and you don't get to say "oh too hard you do it", but need to seek compromise).

It'd also be useful to get adult DSS who is currently living with us to pick a fair set of chores off the list - he has grown up with a fairly patriarchal setup and is lacking in confidence to pitch in, so tends only to do stuff when specifically asked and given instructions (not sure how detailed as I've not got involved, not wanting to become seen as The Owner Of Housework).

• Relatively fairish: I push for 60:40 DP:me on the grounds that with societal expectations, that pushes us back to near parity. When I was returning to work from mat leave, I aimed for 70:30 and DP did the majority of sick days. His employers were rather "haven't you got a wifey for that?" at first but they've got over it. If we'd tried to be fair I'd have ended up with the bulk of responsibilities.

It's always a work in progress though.

societal expectations: I mean expectations from external factors like workplace, childcare, relatives, and soon school, that can stick a big fat thumb on one side of the scale if you let them.

Marking my place. I'm a lp so have to make sure both ds and dd contribute equally and grow up to expect the same in their own households. DS did change a toilet roll the other day, I though we had a ghost until I grilled him.

DS did change a toilet roll the other day, I though we had a ghost until I grilled him.

Ah but did he throw away the old cardboard tube?

grim nope, I found it sitting on the landing never having made the recycling tub. However he's only 9 so all is not lost.

miffer I'm the same, it's been a useful husband training tool
We are pretty even (he does more day to day tidying and laundry than me, I do more proper cleaning like oven, mould on windows frame, paintwork etc) except he really does not see child health care and bathing as anything to do with him. If I died they would never see a dentist and doctor only if they were very clearly very ill. Probably wouldn't get bathed unless they stank.
He also does nothing to do with the cat either.
I'm not sure whether I got lucky or whether the fact my threshold is so much lower and I just won't do stuff has helped.

"because his job is hard and he does do quite a lot at home compared with many men..."

This is one of the mistakes women make. They compare what their DH does in the house with what other men do, instead of what they themselves are doing.

So the men always look better than they would if we compared them with us.

Also I bet your job is hard too. Both at work and at home.

I lead on food, he leads on laundry. He unloads the dishwasher, I load it. Or the children do. We share taxiing the children. We shared nitcombing. We have a cleaner.

Not quite what Basil said but something similar.

Well this weekend I built flat pack furniture and put shelves up. It was satisfying. I really resented having to keep the children busy, supply coffee and food while ex did the man work. Way back in the early days I saw it as both our work but it was easier to give up and leave him to it.

I should have seen the big red flag when he and FIL built me a kitchen, rolled eyes when I had any opinions and FIL saved a damage sink for me so I could practice cleaning materials on it

Good cartoon strip.